Electoral reform needed.

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board ARCHIVE' started by BarnsleyReds, May 8, 2015.

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  1. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    SNP
    1.5m voters. 56 seats.

    UKIP (as much as I hate them)
    3.7m voters. 1 seat.

    SNP only make up 50% of the votes in Scotland, yet only 3 MPs represent the other 50%. Ridiculous.
     
    BarnsleyReds, May 8, 2015
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  2. DSLRed

    DSLRed Well-Known Member

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    Agree that it needs the question asking at the very least - those figures are very telling. But one of the flip sides, apart from permanent coalition, is the fact that, for example PR, means that it leaves the door open for extreme views to have too much influence. Using PR, UKIP would have over 50 seats today. Some would say that it is a desirable side effect of our very imperfect system that this can't happen.
     
    DSLRed, May 8, 2015
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  3. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    That's a very good point. Should those 3.7m people not be given a voice, though? It pains me to say this, but what makes those 3.7 million that voted UKIP only be worth 1 voice, while the 1.5m that voted SNP are worth 56? It's very undemocratic.
     
    BarnsleyReds, May 8, 2015
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  4. Gor

    Gordon Ottershaw Well-Known Member

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    But another way of looking at it is that UKIP put forward candidates in nearly 11 times as many constituencies than the SNP, yet only received 2.5 times as many votes.
     
    Gordon Ottershaw, May 8, 2015
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  5. Redstar

    Redstar Well-Known Member

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    I think the whole democratic system is archaic. We need much more local democracy that feeds up the chain.
     
    Redstar, May 8, 2015
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  6. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I agree with you - you also missed - at the time of typing

    Votes for the Tories 11.1Million, 323 seats
    Votes against the Tories 19.2 Million 315 seats - so despite nearly twice as many voting against the Tories they will have total control
    and in scotland - not sure of exact figures but its around 50% voted for SNP = 56 seats 50% voted against the SNP = 3 seats

    Its not really democracy is it



    But thats not really relevant - the SNP could if they chose put candidates up elsewhere

    Stark fact is
    4.8% of votes cast were for SNP = 56 seats or 8.6% of the total seats
    7.7% of votes cast were for LibDem = 8 seats or 1.2% of the total seats
    12.6% of votes cast were for UKIP = 1 seat or 0.1% of the total seats

    Much as I abhor UKIP - that cant be right - its not democracy
    oh and the tories with only 37% of the votes cast have over 50% of the seats
     
    Farnham_Red, May 8, 2015
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  7. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's all very wrong right now.

    The problem is, I havent heard a better solution. You'd have to scrap the entire MP system, which I can't see happening any time soon.
     
    BarnsleyReds, May 8, 2015
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  8. e-red

    e-red Well-Known Member

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    Anybody worked out what the total result would have been under PR?
     
    e-red, May 8, 2015
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  9. tyr

    tyrone1 Banned Idiot

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    They didn't win one seat
     
    tyrone1, May 8, 2015
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  10. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Depends what form of PR you use - but if you had the farest form its a straight breakdown of percentages so Tories would have 37% of seats Labour 31% UKIP 12% etc

    Most PR's dont work quite so cleanly though but it wouldnt be too far out
     
    Farnham_Red, May 8, 2015
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  11. Plankton Pete

    Plankton Pete Well-Known Member

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    Plankton Pete, May 8, 2015
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  12. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Farnham_Red, May 8, 2015
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  13. onemickybutler

    onemickybutler Well-Known Member

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    I've never understood how the current system could ever be deemed as democratic. The figures you quote hammer home the point. Proportional Representation has to be a better system to reflect the votes cast. Can't see Tories proposing a change any time soon tho.....
     
    onemickybutler, May 8, 2015
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  14. tyr

    tyrone1 Banned Idiot

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    tyrone1, May 8, 2015
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  15. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    FPTP is dated and does not reflect a changing electorate leaving many feeling disenfranchised. It reinforces the Westminster system and leads to the cynicism we all feel about politics as it stops genuinely popular movements like UKIP or the Greens I voted for ever being able to influence the system and therefore expand and develop just leading them down cul de sacs. Can't see it changing though.
     
    Jimmy viz, May 8, 2015
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  16. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    It works fine if you want the largest minority to have total control but don't care whether the majority views are taken into account

    Then again a dictatorship works fine if you dont care about majority views either

    doesnt make either of them right
     
    Farnham_Red, May 8, 2015
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  17. dreamboy3000

    dreamboy3000 Well-Known Member

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    dreamboy3000, May 8, 2015
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  18. tyr

    tyrone1 Banned Idiot

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    Each area votes ans the winner represents them
     
    tyrone1, May 8, 2015
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  19. ronnieGlavinsB@stardSon

    ronnieGlavinsB@stardSon Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree that the current system isn't fit for purpose. However, if you remember 5 years ago one of the main bargaining points for the Liberals during the coalition talks was a referendum on this very subject. What happened? A relatively poor turn out and the majority (60 /40 if I recall) wanting the status quo. The country had the chance to change this but declined due to apathy and ignorance.
     
    ronnieGlavinsB@stardSon, May 8, 2015
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  20. too

    toontyke Active Member

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    Sounds to me like there are too many constituencies in Scotland considering the sparse population.
    That's how you can win in 56 constituencies with so few voters
     
    toontyke, May 8, 2015
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