FINALLY - The shell-shocked soldiers shot for desertion receive pardons.

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board ARCHIVE' started by Guest, Aug 16, 2006.

  1. Gue

    Guest Guest

    It's a bloody disgrace that it's taken this long. </p>
     
  2. La Dent de Crolles

    La Dent de Crolles Well-Known Member

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    It is indeed,

    read somewhere today that ministers didn't want to &quot;second guess&quot; the commanders of the day.</p>

    The Generals of the day should have been executed for blatant waste of human life , and using troops as cannon fodder.</p>
     
  3. BIG

    BIG BROTHER New Member

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    They killed many more

    sending them over the top to an instant death,just to add a poll on sky this morning 13% disagreed with the decision,think they ought to round these twits up and send them to Iraq for a month.
     
  4. La Dent de Crolles

    La Dent de Crolles Well-Known Member

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    Stick them in a trench full of mud and shell them round the clock.

    Probably some relatives of Kitchener and Haig.</p>

    Morons.</p>
     
  5. Gue

    Guest Guest

    It certainly is. If you don't shoot the enemy we shoot you?

    In the WWI it seemed that young kids were deemed 'cannon fodder' just for the political aims of a few. Unfortunately we're still doing the same today, politicians fighting their battles with other peoples lives. :(
     
  6. EastStander

    EastStander Active Member

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    Fluffy liberal!
     
  7. Gue

    Guest Guest

    How do we know after the best part of 90 years that they all suffered from shell shock. Some had murdered colleagues and others would have been deserters in the true sense. It is another bit of New Labour nonsense, similar to the apologies to all and sundry for Britain's involvement in x, y and z.
     
  8. Dys

    Dyson Well-Known Member

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    **** off. So you advocate shooting young lads who didn't/couldn't go over the top?

    Tory ba5tard.
     
  9. Redstar

    Redstar Well-Known Member

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    I do believe...

    that ones shot for offences other than desertion eg murder, will not be pardoned.

    The 306 (I think) that areset to be pardoned are to be examined and charges checked
     
  10. Redstar

    Redstar Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he was saying that. Quite right if people who murdered others are not pardoned. Although it could be argued that they did it because of shell shock.

    I'd like to see Kitchener Haig at al posthoumously charged with war crimes against our own side. Bring in the politicians of the day and the royals too.

    I'd also ban the use of that Kitchener poster as well.
     
  11. Dys

    Dyson Well-Known Member

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    I think he was saying that they shouldn't have been pardoned as they may have deserted in WWI.

    I'd have ******* deserted as well - Conchy all the way.
     
  12. Gue

    Guest Guest

    Coward! What about King and country?

    Going over the top - a bit like being a suicide bomber but without the bomb bit. :(
     
  13. DJ Fatty Boy

    DJ Fatty Boy Well-Known Member

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  14. Gue

    Guest Guest

    That was my thinking.

    To my knowledge they've looked at the individual records and pardoned the lads deemed to have been suffering from shell shock.</p>
     
  15. Redstar

    Redstar Well-Known Member

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    RE: That was my thinking.

    Yeah, that's what I thought. Can only praise the government for doing this one.
     
  16. swindontyke

    swindontyke Member

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    Military infantry tactics in WW1 were based on those used at Waterloo ..

    ...i.e. throw enough numbers at an enemy line and you will eventually batter your way through. 

    Unfortunately they had not allowed for the fact that those new-fangled machine gun thingies could fire 1000 rounds per minute up to 3000 yards.  They even thought cavalry still had a role to play in battle in 1914 !!

    It took both sides four years and millions of men to work out that these tactics needed 'updating'...
     
  17. Andy Mac

    Andy Mac Well-Known Member

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    My view.

    My main hobby (sad tw@ that I am) is WW1, particularly the role of the 16 / 18th Battalions West Yorks Regts. I have done a hell of a lot of research and I for one believe this pardon to be long overdue. We can only guess at the horrors these guys saw / suffered. You'll know my sincerity when you check the posts of mine on this BBS from every July 1st ....
    My interest started with family stories from a Great-grandfather.
    In the regiments I list above, two men from the 18th were shot at dawn in October 1916, Herbert Crimmins and Albert Wild. I won't bore you with long details (PM me for that !) but briefly, these guys VOLUNTEERED - they weren't trained soldiers. They both gave exemplary service for two years even volunteering for search party forages into no-mans land and the dangerous job of wire-cutting. In June 1916, they were part of the famous big push. Given a night off, they visited a local estaminet for some French hospitality and no doubt a few glasses of wine / beer (just as we all would I guess). This was common practice for men on stand-down, however this night, Crimmins and Wild had a few too many and fell asleep in a field on their way back to the front line. They then got lost the next day and asked an MP to help them back to their battalion. This over-zealous chap reported them for desertion and arrested them. They were court-martialled and sent for trial WITH GLOWING REFERENCES FROM THEIR C.O ! However, in the time leading up to the trial, this C.O was up for promotion and changed his reference to say "neither of these me have achieved anything that has stood out and seem to be an easy distraction to one another". They were shot by their own "Pals" the next day (one later had a nervous breakdown and shot himself in Cleckheaton after the war). After the shooting, pals layed flowers in their billets - these were kicked away by a C.O and ordered to be removed.
    For decades after the war, the 16th and 18th had an annual reunion and there was always a silence for fallen comrades. Crimmins and Wild were remembered as such. They were never accused of cowardice among peers. The C.O who kicked the flowers away was vilified and detested by his men.
    Today, as always when this matter crops up, I will remember them.
     
  18. Andy Mac

    Andy Mac Well-Known Member

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  19. Andy Mac

    Andy Mac Well-Known Member

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    Pen and Sword

    ..... do some excellent WW1 literature, including an excellent book on the Barnsley Pals.
     
  20. nezbfc

    nezbfc Well-Known Member

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    so what happened to this ****** of a C.O then?
     

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