For anyone interested in Labour and/or Corbyn

I can highly recommend this book. I think it's a really fair and balanced account, although I'm not sure anyone comes out of it well. Personally my politics are more to the left of Labour's broad church, and it certainly did little to change my view of the behaviour of the Parliamentary Labour Party, but it also lays bare the failings of Corbyn and his team. Interesting insights on Starmer too.

 

Cheers, I might give it a read.

I’ve always voted Labour but a lot of what I’ve read over the past 12 months mainly in regards to the 2017 election really puts me off voting for them anytime soon.

Some of the current & former MP’s & staff members conduct was disgraceful. Ian Austin for one is about the worst excuse for a Labour politician there’s surely ever been.

If this Forde report comes out & addresses the Labour Leaks & they punish the people that sabotaged the election campaign then I’d vote for them again but I’m not convinced they will.

I’ve always (naively) thought that in general Labour MP’s are more decent than the Tories & I’d like to think some still are but there’s plenty in there that I think are just as bad as the Tories & would probably be doing favours for their mates like the Tories do.

 

????

 

Tim Shipman, that the same Tim Shipman from the Mail, Telegraph & the times? You sure this book is non bias & completely objective????

 

there’s a fair synopsis here which addresses your concerns. Tim Shipman didn’t write it by the way but the 2 who did are times writers.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/dae3b268-8a49-487a-b077-3c18d4317eea

 

Rather pour candle wax down my Japs eye, or failing that nail my c€$k to the kitchen table with a rusty nail

 

Enjoy

 

Looks nice.

 

Very few MPs come out of it well, whether due to their behaviour or often complete misunderstanding of the country at large. The chapter on Change UK and Chuka Ummuna and Chris Leslie's abject failures was particularly satisfying. Emily Thornberry comes out of it pretty well, and if John McDonnell had been the leader I think there could have been different outcomes - although the reality is his younger self meant he would never have got that chance.

The biggest issue with Corbyn was his indecision and hatred of confrontation, which make him a good bloke but ultimately ill equipped to lead in the long term. It's difficult because his absolute adherence to his principles both made him and broke him. The pressure and hostility he and others faced from both the PLP and NEC was horrible and ridiculous though, and sowed all the seeds of the unravelling that was to follow.

The biggest issue for Labour though was Brexit, as it would have been for whoever was in charge. It just reaffirmed the bind the party was in, and those who argued for simple solutions or ways out look deluded. The reality is although a reluctant remainder Corbyn didn't really care about it. Its not why he got in to politics and at its very heart it became about detailed technocratic decisions. Ultimately Labour's strategy was wrong but everyone was blindsided by Johnson achieving a deal (which shafted the country) and the Lib Dems fatal misreading of their chance of political success.

Anyway, fascinating read.

 

What are the headline insights on Starmer, ark?

 

He comes across pretty well. Certainly extremely bright and competent. The key point the book makes is - probably counter to most people's views - his intention when put in charge of Brexit was to make sure it happened, but with the least damaging scenario. It wasn't his intention to pursue a remain position.

He also knew that he was going to win the leadership race by the time the General election was lost. Paul Mason and others had been preparing for the outcome - and preparing him - well in advance, but never in a way that was disloyal or undermined Corbyn. His intentions - whether pragmatic or not - are to unite the party and end factionalism, and his stance on antisemitism is the one McDonnell had advocated. In Corbyn's defence on that one he was just so hurt by what he saw as a complete misunderstanding of his very core principles that he never could take the pragmatic route of apologising.

I don't think having read the book it would suddenly make someone dislike Starmer or turn against him, similarly I don't think anyone would have a major epiphany in support other than to reflect how loyal he ultimately was when the majority of the PLP were being at best disruptive. But he does need to stay true to the economic platform he promised that won him the leadership. But wow, anyone in charge of the Labour Party has a job on their hands.

 

I read it when it was released. Excellently researched and, even-handed, assessment of the Corbyn-era after 2017.

Unsurprisingly, it shows it to be the utter shambles that all but the Corbynistas saw it to be.

I was impressed that they managed to get Karie Murphy to contribute to it, but it's a good example of how many sources they spoke to who could legitimately claim to be 'in the room' at some of the key moments.

 

That's very interesting. Thanks for that.

Couldn't agree more with your last sentence. Some will see the competence, thoroughness and steady mentality as great assets, while others will feel that would prevent him from going far enough. But he'll presumably need the 'red wall' seats and Scotland back to some extent to gain power.

 

I’m afraid you just have to look at who backed Starmer (financially) in the Leadership election and why he refused to declare those backers before votes had been cast , to tell you this bloke is no honest broker . His performance as Leader has been abject

 

And what should he have done in your opinion?

 

I'd agree with this. It dispels a lot of the accusations that are being thrown at Starmer by the Left to try and discredit him, now that he's leader, particularly the one that he's somehow to blame for Labour losing the election because it was his Brexit 'non-policy' that caused it.

It also gives a good insight into the challenges facing Tom Watson in his role as Deputy Leader, and being one of the few moderate voices remaining on the NEC.

McDonnell comes across as the one genuine politician among the Corbynite MP's, and one who worked hardest to try to achieve the necessary compromises. LOTO preferred to listen to imbeciles like Ian Lavery maintaining that the North would never elect Tories, when determining policy.

It's also particularly striking how much Corbyn himself was sidelined by his own team during the 2019 election campaign, and pretty much had to beg for access to key strategy documents, such as 'the grid' during the campaign.

 

I’d go with not letting Marcus Rashford and Jack Monroe be the official opposition or at least to be more critical of govt policy than say Jeremy Hunt.

 

When something is so even handed it is good as I think it allows people to reflect better and have their own views challenged. That said we will all carry our preconceptions in to it and interpret accordingly. I am certainly sympathetic to the view that much of the failings to deliver Corbynism were a product of the mendacity of those within Labour who were determined to see it fail.

I ultimately believe in the principles that underpin Corbynism but he clearly didn't have the ability to make the Executive decisions needed on a daily basis to make it work, or the ability to be at times pragmatic. But so much of the daily internal battles should have been completely unnecessary. Sad to see that people in the Labour Party, certainly in 2017, were clearly appalled by running on an anti-austerity platform. Ultimately Labour were only 4,000 votes off forming a government which a united party might have achieved.

Reflection needed on all sides.

 

If people want to read more about how Brexit developed before and after, I'd very much recommend All out War by Tim Shipman. Some will immediately cast it off for the papers Shipman has been involved, but I found it very frank and equal in its criticisms irrespective of their politics. It certainly painted a negative picture of the Labour effort to campaign for remaining and a desire not to be near Cameron on the same platform, hence leaving a void that was never really filled.

Very good read, and I'll certainly seek this book out too. Thanks for the recommendation.