Good Sale or not with hindsight.

Now we can see how careers have progressed since leaving Barnsley and the financial position of clubs was it the right decision to take the money for these players ? or should we have kept them and lost them for nothing? broke our structure to keep them ?

These in recent years are the only ones to go for a fee.

Mark Roberts
Brad Potts
Liam Lyndsay
Tom Bradshaw
Angus Macdonald
Alfie Mawson
Sam Winnall
James Bree
Ethan Pinnock
Kiefer Moore
Connor Hourihane
Stevie Mallan
Knasmullner

Would keeping any of these players have kept us in the championship and put us in a position now where we would be more financially secure?

I would have broke our pay structure for Hourihane and Pinnock, no one else but i dont think doing that we would be any better off now. The combined transfer fees for those 2 may have kept us from going under.

 

Pinnock and Conor are the only ones I would've kept considering the circumstances surrounding each transfer. But its difficult to judge considering we know what happened next for each player.

 

Mark Roberts - selling was stupid
Brad Potts - selling was stupid. Almost derailed our season
Liam Lyndsay - didn't rate him. Get rid
Tom Bradshaw - shouldn't have sold without getting a replacement in.
Angus Macdonald - selling him left us dangerously short at the back. Same as always, didn't replace properly.
Alfie Mawson - we had great players to replace him if my memory is right. Right decision
Sam Winnall - sold and not replaced. Stupid decision
James Bree - can't remember who we had as a replacement at the time.
Ethan Pinnock - no reason to sell him. He had a contract and was more valuable to us in our side than a few million in the bank.
Kiefer Moore - shouldn't have sold him without a replacement
Connor Hourihane - same as above. Needed a replacement
Stevie Mallan - can't argue with selling him
Knasmullner - good decision. Realise you've made a mistake and move them on

 

It was either Callum Elder or Gethin Jones. I can't remember which was the left-back and which was the right-back, but Elder is one of the worst footballers in the history of the world.

 

Pinnock was the worst and it was obvious to anyone with a hole in their arse how bad a deal it was.

 

Selling Roberts sent us down

Selling Pinnock nearly sent us down

 

Agree with pretty much all of that but remember that Mowatt was bought as Hourihane’s replacement

I guess with Hourihane and Winnall we took a gamble - bank £3.7m or have an outside shot at the play offs and lose the money. I think Patrick said we offered Conor about £15k a week to stay but Villa pretty much offered double that again.

it’s difficult to keep players in those circumstances, so close to the end of their contract. We were pretty much safe from relegation at that point and so they took the safe option.

Pinnock is the worst bit of business we have done in years. Foolish and reckless.

 

Woodrow was Bradshaw's replacement, only trouble was he was injured

 

If we hadn't broken up that team in January 2017, who knows what would have happened. Within touching distance of the top 6, we all know what we can do in the 2nd half of seasons

 

Agree up to the top 6 bit ( who knows) But it’s because we don’t know what we could have done in the second half. decisions are made. History doesn’t dictate the future. We’ve had mixed bags. The number of times we failed at the last hurdle keeping the same side are as numerous as the good ones.
Top of the table nerves kick in. Bottom of the table fight kicks in.
I am as gutted as anyone else when I see a player I like leave. But I understand that I’m not the one having to bankroll the club.
I believe in ffp if it’s adhered to. It should bring automatic penalties ASAP. If it goes to arbitration dealt with and it should be enforced before the next season commences.

 

Time had come to sell most of those players.
Whether because their contracts were coming to an end and they wouldn’t sign another - or the money was right to sell.

Except for two players.

It was high risk to sell Potts in January during a promotion chasing year - although luckily the owners got away with that one. Imagine the uproar if we hadn’t got promoted.

It was a very poor decision to sell Moore when we didn’t have to - and at a time that the club was going into a higher league. Moore would undoubtedly have put quite a few more points on the board last season.

 

I don’t think we could’ve ever offered them new deals given what they’d want.

My view is Potts should’ve been told you aren’t going until the summer but luckily for us Brown emerged as a good alternative on the right wing & we didn’t miss him.

I would’ve kept Winnall, Hourihane & Bree. We would’ve still got a fee for Bree due to his age but the other two would’ve been lost for nothing. However I think it was a risk worth taking as I reckon we had about a 20% chance of been promoted to the premier league & we’d already made upwards of £10m in sales that season through selling Alfie Mawson & the Stones sell on fee.

I would’ve liked us to keep Moore another season but at least we knew all summer he wanted to go & it wasn’t a transfer that messed our season up midway through.

Can’t argue with the rest of them. All made financial sense.

 

With good fortune or not we look to be in a position now where on and off the pitch we are looking stable, we werent in 2017 as a club ready for promotion as in infrastructure or financial to have had a chance of competing to stay up even if we had kept Conor, Winnal, Bree.

Were Potts and Roberts good enough to make much of a difference that the player was more important than the fee we got for them at that time?

I think that with hindsight now that the sales kept us a float to progress the spreadsheet plan and that the money from these sales was more important to the sustainability of the club at that time than the players were.

It wasnt to us as fans but to the club it was. Me included showed a lot of vitriol at times to the old and new owners but thier actions and sales may have been the right thing to do in most cases.

 

Pinnock may have been the star of that back 4 but it wasn’t just him that was a huge loss. Davies was club captain & had rediscovered his best form & Lindsay was a rock in the air & constantly dishing out orders & organising. Then for whatever reason, ability, contract, resale value who knows both of Cavare & Pinillos were pushed out meaning we lost all our back 5 in one go. Any side would struggle after that.

 

Theres a re occuring theme. We dont adequatley replace. Been my issue with supporting this club for years. We put up with the mistakes and poor performances of our cheap but promising players and when they do start playing well and you enjoy watching them, theyre sold for 2m. Replaced slowly or inadequatley using only a fraction of the money just received. I know our place and I know weve always sold players but we need to replace good players with players further down their developmental path to aid continuity.

 

I'd argue a few of those:

Whilst I was a fan of Potts, I wouldn't say it almost derailed our season. We had 2 defeats in 21 in the league after he left, and one of those came after we'd been promoted.

I'd have said Woodrow was Bradshaw's replacement. Okay he got injured the day he signed, so maybe a short term loan would have tied us over.

I think we had little choice over Winnall. Clause in his contract, and he wanted to leave.

Hourihane, another one who wanted to leave. We signed Mowatt the day before he left, and Matty James on loan a day or two after if memory serves me right. Arguably the best two midfielders we've had since Hourihane.

 

You are not wrong but 3 1/2 years of selling, developing and rebuilding may have been a sacrifice to get to this stage as a club and a team. Experience in Woodrow, Mowatt, Solbaure and exciting talents of Styles, Simeos, Palmer, Odour, Walton and even Anderson becoming regulars in a competing championship team. Cost next to nothing, brought in good money and will stand the club in a good position going forward playing and financial wise.

 

But until you are hold of the purse strings and you are having to use your own money to keep the club out of debt. What is financial sense . As in Patrick’s case lose millions (Having to prop up the club) of his own by taking the chance, or making that business decision.

 

We also received a fee for:

Dimitri Cavare
Mallik Wilks
Jason McCarthy
George Moncur
Cole K'Pekawa
Kayden Jackson
Sessi D'Almeida
Stephan Payne
Matty Pearson
Reece Brown

All sold since Mawson (who was the earliest one you mentioned on your list)

Unsure of the fee's, but it was reported at the time we made a profit on some of them. You'd struggle to argue they were bad business if we did move them on for a profit. I appreciate none of them are inspiring names, but you can't get it right every time.

 

To be honest I'd completely forgot we had signed Mowatt before Hourihane left.
I don't think Bradshaw was ever a replacement for winnall though, Bradshaw was winnalls strike partner until he was sold.

And Potts going definetly made us weaker. We got away with it but it did make us weaker.