If the U.S. Election fiasco has highlighted anything....

...as if we did not already know, the American concept of 'democracy' is considerably different from how most people in the developed World would define it.

I have just been reading about Attorney General William Barr and am astounded that, after all the controversy surrounding his career and his overt partisan support for the Republicans and unwavering support for Donald Trump, he is still in office. His latest memo regarding investigating the 2020 Election 'fraud?' is the latest in a long line of moves that undermine the constitution.

The Justice Department's top election crimes prosecutor in the Justice Department's Public Integrity Section, Richard Pilger resigned Monday in protest after Barr told federal prosecutors that they should examine allegations of voting irregularities before states move to certify results in the coming weeks.

It is not just Trump. Leading Republicans including Senator Mitch McConnell have thrown their weight behind Trump and investigating Fraud in a desperate attempt to keep Trump in office demonstrating a total lack of ethics and moral decency. American politics has hit a new low. I know plenty on here have an incredibly low opinion of UK politics and politicians but it in no way compares to the corrupt and unethical system regarding both Political interference in the judiciary and the morals and highly suspect priorities of many of the occupants of both houses in the United States.
'God help America'

 

There's plenty that is undemocratic about this country even without looking into corruption, from the basic system of representation using first-past-the-post, to the unelected House of Lords.

 

Might be worth looking into the awarding of Covid contracts by Cummings and Boris though as a starting place.

 

Didn't mean to quote myself! My son does that but he's 11 so it's quite endearing

 

Our system is flawed too. I think the case in point at the moment in America though is the contempt being shown towards a perfectly fair election. It's not the system it's the abuse of it and once that abuse becomes standard then we're in trouble and that approach could just as easily spread to here and elsewhere.
I think the US will come through this and Trump will fail but serious damage has already been done to democracy.

 

It’s worth pointing out that there is only the much maligned House of Lords that’s currently standing in the way of Boris empowering himself to break international law by breaking the Brexit agreement, despite five former PMs imploring not to do so. Just a few short years ago I wouldn’t have thought it possible that two men could wreak such havoc on western democracy.
Putin must think all his birthdays have come at once

 

Sadly we're not too far behind. Our own Attorney General, Suella Braverman, released a statement on the Internal Market Bill which she will have known was legally inaccurate and yet she proceeded to lie to prop up the Government.

 

Not disputing anyone insisting the current state of UK politics is healthy is delusional. There are clearly those whose no.1 priority is self interest.

For me the 'first past the post' is not really an issue. It was and is the constant gerrymandering that has gone on for decades that is IMO the underlying fault.
The American 'college' system where an area (county) can vote for one party but the 'winner takes all concept' State wide in such a huge country means in many places where low population density( rural) with differing priorities and therefore allegiances, takes 2nd place to the cities meaning their vote, effectively counts for less.

PR on the other hand, invariably means no overall majority and hung Parliaments. Consensus politics sounds great in theory but is a pipe dream as little would get done, especially in these days of polarised politics. Responsive and decisive joint decisions rarely happen. Government by committee does not work. Someone has to lead for (better or worse) but we unfortunately have a 2 party system where the incumbent never admits that the previous party in power did actually have some policies that worked and so, from the outset, seeks to undo everything the other party achieved. This flip flop that we have had for the past few decades between austerity economic politics and spending (Keynsian theory) politics, where both (in certain circumstances) have merits and disadvantages mean neither get a chance to work even when one party has multiple consecutive terms in office. That is, in fact, sometimes worse as the incoming party has to take even more extreme measures to reverse well established policies and measures brought in by the previous encumbents.

Throw ineptitude, incompetence and/or corruption into that mix and we are royally scr*wed.

All the above IMO of course. There are probably many arguments in favour of PR, but I often think just because a current system is not working as it should there are measure that should be taken before scrapping it altogether and bringing in something that may have just as many flaws.

 

Not disputing any of the comments in the replies. I think the trend in the UK and many countries is counter to what we, as the general public regard as true democracy.
Democracy has always been covertly tainted by business interests, the rich and powerful lobbyists and vested interests.

For me though, the worry is that more recently the Judiciary are becoming more aligned to and influenced by the political climate and the whole ting is becoming more overt as if they have abandoned any pretence of being impartial. The contempt with which the Govt treat the law - domestic and international AND the public opinion is the most scary aspect, again IMO. Social media, has its bad sides but it does enable a light to be shone on dodgy dealings in the dark corridors of power and smoky meeting rooms where, for decades previously, it was hidden away from prying eyes.

 

You’re right about the college system being skewed (though not that different to our FPTP system)
Wrong conclusion though, in totally rural states, a vote is worth much more than in more urban states.

But it’s what leads the rednecks to mistrust elections, they drive around and see nothing but Trump signs in lawns for hundreds of miles, and therefore see that Democrats in Cities are marginalising them. They can’t see that a medium size city has twice as many people as thousands of sq miles of countryside.

As for the state of our democracy - I’ll be fair and say it wasn’t your main point; but you couldn’t be more wrong.

of all my defences of the EU I could never have imagined the most important one would be ‘keeping our government straight’, but it seems that was a lack of imagination on my part.

 

Tell that to New Zealand, or Germany. Or Japan. Even Scotland (with a current minority gov) and Wales. Or many other countries with PR and an effective majority in Parliament.

In the real world, grown-ups compromise to reach an agreement - particularly about major issues. If most major companies can work that way, along with most larger governments to reactive and proactive issues, then why is the government in Westminster so opposed to it?

As for the electoral college system, it was originally founded to take account of the fact that a vote from an ex-slave was worth less than the vote from a white man.

 

Definitely. However, the American college system has the dubious honour of making our FPTP system look vaguely sane.

 

There's plenty of evidence coming through that there was massive fraud in lots of States, but the lamestream media won't report on it because of the bias of the media owners. Smaller news outlets are reporting it fully, such as voting machines rigged to switch votes, mail-in voting where the papers were pre-filled for Democrats, election centre staff dumping any votes for Republicans and many more. In the States, ballot forms have the names of all the candidates for Presidency, Congress, State and local govt. Hundreds of thousands of forms were turning up overnight with just Biden's name ticked.Pilger was head of the anti-fraud votes, why would he resign if there was nothing to find. If your boss at work told you he was going to check your work, would you resign or say, go ahead, be my guest, there's nothing to hide?

 

Wow
Where to start?

 

This is what happens when you get your news from Breitbart.

 

Funny how these issues are being suggested by some people now. Wonder why they weren't highlighted while the votes were being made. Have you emailed Donald Trump because he would probably like to use this information...?

 

All the shenanigans in the USA show just how fragile 'democracy' is. Just takes a few people who are corrupt or have an agenda and if democrats don't tough it out the concept is in trouble. Could easily happen here.

 

If there was ever a phrase that warranted a bullet, I think this would get my vote right now.

 

What is wrong with giving jobs worth £100,000s a year to your mates and contacts worth many millions to them without the need for competition?

 

look out for ‘contract worth £1.08m’

because contracts of less than £900k (ex vat) have lower scrutiny requirements.

There do seem to be many contracts of that value