Immigration

Regardless of what your view on the subject is, do Labour not see that in surrendering the debate on immigration they are destined to lose?

 

More importantly, do Labour not realise that voting for the completely useless tw@t that is Ed Milliband has ****** up any opportunity to defeat the worst Tory Leadership team ever. The tories could not be doing any worse at the moment but the sorry state of the Labour front bench means that they'll probably lose the next election when quite frankly screaming Lord Such would be able to beat them.

 

labour did the same when they gave micheal foot the leadership,no way on gods earth were they going to win an election,even with thatcher butchering everything to pieces.

 

There's a Labour party ?

They're quiet.

 

"Ok, we've listened on the door step and we are going to agree with you and say immigration is bad, now will you vote for us?"

"No, I'm going to vote for them over there"

"Why?"

"Well your agreeing that its a problem so I'm now fully convinced, so I'll vote for someone who has a radical solution"

 

Immigration was one of the biggest failings under the last Labour government. It was Labours appalling record on immigration that the BNP gained the momentum that they did.

 

That's kind of my point though Mario. If you do believe immigration is a problem then you're not going to vote Labour to solve it. So them agreeing with you instead of offering an alternative argument is not going to help

 

Let's be reight, Call Me Dave, Ed and the rest - they'll talk tough(ish) on immigration without going into detail on the different types and where folk are coming from, but they'll do nothing really about the abuses of the system or the fallacies repeated in the press. They think that will get the Tories the UKIP vote and Labour the white working class vote that may have swung to the BNP etc. Unpalatable fact for some but the BNP have attracted 'old' Labour voters, although thankfully Griiffin etc have been quiet of late.

 

my father who as passed away was a wise man and always told me to steer clear pf the big three. It was'nt until my 16th birthday he told me what they were Religon Politics and 3 card brag

 

I agree although while Labour were pathetic on immigration the Tories (who are better) still aren't addressing the key issues.

 

He was spot on. They're all as bad.

 

when people talk about the immigration issue, are we talking migration around the EU (perfectly legal and works in both directions), migration from Africa/Asia (with racist undertones) or something else?

 

Agree 100%.

Ed snaked the leadership race by wooing the unions and that's why David Milliband missed out. David would've made a much stronger leader IMHO. As it stands for the first time ever I don't think I'll be voting. Ed is too spineless and has no oomph about him not leadership material at all, that's probably why the unions backed him as I can't imagine he's too hard to manipulate.

 

He's not done too bad a job at not being manipulated by the unions so far.

David Milliband is Blair mark 2.

 

I remember Michael Foot becoming leader. Intelligent guy, but not someone you would go over the wall with Follow me men. He had all on to walk. Ed Milliband is also a Brain child, his brother David. was the best option. Ed Milliband will not win the Tories as he has not got the Man Leadership qualities required. The Unions put him in, and it is them who will ditch him before the Election arrives.

 

Probably a bit of everything. Personally I think mass immigration has brought far more negatives than positives. To me, the positives are largely hypothetical, very subjective and often little more than rhetorical generalisations. The negatives are often tangible, real problems being sharply felt by many people. The frustration is that no one can have an honest debate about immigration without being accused of having those 'racial undertones' you mention.

Labour set out to change the demographics of the country, as Blair I think actually admitted recently. They got it very wrong in my opinion. The extent to which it happened turned a possibly positive and culturally stimulating policy into a free-for-all, resulting in what we have today. No major political party will ever 'get tough' on immigration because it has been made socially unacceptable to criticise it.

I can appreciate both sides of the immigration debate but such a debate needs to be allowed to take place without one side of the argument being shouted down with constant cries of racism, bigotry and intolerance.

 

You guys are all missing the point I'm afraid.

Milliband is sitting tight. You notice the much heralded policy review just keeps getting put off.

They know the Lib Dem vote is gonna fall, that has taken votes off them & the tory vote is gonna be split, like it was in this bye election by UKIP, putting them in power.
They are keeping schtum & gonna walk in.

Why come up with policies that people might not like.

Immigration & Europe will **** the Tories. Labour don't need to do owt.

 

I really don't agree with that though, because the debate is completely one sided against immigration. All the main parties have surrended the debate to the populist opinion formed by the right wing press. It's the exact opposite of what your saying, in that no politician will argue the positives of immigration because they have decided it would be electoral suicide.

The only side of the debate which has been shut off is in relation to the positives of immigration. And this is a flawed strategy by mainstream politicians as it will only lead to the rise of more extreme parties, as the only way immigration can actually be stopped is through extreme measures. They've abandoned the debate far too easily.

 

Can't see what point you are trying to make.

Labour were never gonna get any votes in Eastleigh.

Lib Dems got 32%. UKIP 28% Tories 25%

Assuming at least half of UKIP voters would have voted Tory if UKIP hadn't stood they would have walked it ... as it was embarassing 3rd in what used to be a safe Tory seat.

 

Sorry John, was replying to Samba.

I'm not really thinking of Eastleigh, just a general point that if Labour think saying they were wrong on immigration is going to win the anti-immigration vote they're deluded