In fairness to the club re ticket pricing and gates

I care that much that I've taken a day off work on Monday to travel from Hull and I'm meeting the Don at 2.30 to discuss idea's I have and to see things from the clubs point of view!! I'd love to get involved more at the club to try and get people back in as it's a big passion of mine.

 

Leeds United is a good example. I can afford to go but simply won't out of principle. 36 pounds is way too much money to be sat in the cold for a couple of hours to watch a match we might not win. For 36 quid you can have a decent saturday evening with plenty of drinks, a takeaway and a taxi home. I don't wish to pump that sort of money into the pocket of a guy in Ken Bates that I cannot stand. If it was about 25 that wouldn't have been so bad. We could have come up with a deal for them so both sets of fans can get in at both games for 25 (like the deal we did with Donny). Our own fans with the 1912 could get in NYE for twenty quid still with the fiver off. Elland Road is a decaying ground with little work done on it for years. It would be great if our following there was only a few hundred so Bates gets the message.

 

Excellent post - the 125th anniversary next season is a massive carrot to build our

fanbase.

I totally agree give the season tickets out at £125 each and kids for say £12.50 and release commerative shirts with say a different colour red and a different 125th anniversary badge and I think we can get 15,000 season ticket holders in at that price. Also do special deals for the exec boxes.

The number of car park places, food, drink, programmes, shirt sales , merchandise etc etc etc will also ass to the coffers.

This will win back the missing thousands that have lost the habit and the finances to get their backsides back in Oakwell.

Oakwell can be loud with just 8,500 reds in, but double that figure and we have a fantastic intimatading atmosphere.

This 125th anniversary idea with the season tickets needs ramming down the throats of the powers that be at Oakwell, if they don't do anything then they will lose the faith of thousands.

 

Re: Excellent post - the 125th anniversary next season is a massive carrot to build o

But we'd be making a massive loss at that. Even if we had 20,000 season ticket holders at a similar ratio to adults / kids etc. than we have now, it'll be a reduction in revenue. You'll also be missing out on the Pay on the gate fans (who pay over the odds). Many would opt to snap up the cheap £125 tickets and attend when they could.

Can't see the any take up in food, drink and programme sales any time soon - It's all overpriced s*ite and I never bother with them. You can park in town for FREE and enjoy a reasonably priced cold beer in a glass and still get home before many have got out of the jam in the club car park.

And to be fair, why should the club offer silly prices just because it's 125 years old. It's not like 'WE' have been supporting for 125 years or the owners have been funding for as much.

Were more likely to just give people aged 125 years a FREE season ticket.

 

Great post. Hopefully it will generate a lot of sensible debate.

My initial thoughts:

1) A lot of the non-financial issues could have been dealt with a lot better by BFC and their public relations (yes, that old chestnut again!). All the PR spin around Robins' departure, Hill's appointment, etc was around the need to economise, 'cut our cloth', etc. To many fans it sent out a message of giving up trying to stay in the Championship. We were preparing for rules coming in a year's time, but significantly increasing the risk of not being a Championship club by the time they came into effect. There was clearly an element of this is the start of season attendances. Crowds were down from the outset, before all the subsequent palava about poor early performances, Category A fixtures kicking in, etc.

2) I'm a season ticket holder (so not affected by it) and I hate the concept of the 1912 club, because of the way it was implemented. If it had been a genuine attempt to encourage regular attendees to save a bit of money, then fair enough. Instead it's been introduced to try and deflect/mask a ridiculous agenda of price increases and, as such, it deserves to be viewed with all the cynicism it gets. Once again, extremely inept PR from BFC.

3) I'm pretty certain there was a better financial model available with regard to ticket pricing that would maximise revenue and fanbase than the one currently in operation. The club took a very short-sighted view in trying to exploit away supporter revenues (if that explanation is to be believed) as it had a very obvious knock-on impact on the casual home support and the ability to build/retain a fanbase. How else is anyone expected to view 16 home games being deemed as Category A as anything other than a cynical rip-off?

4) I think we'll struggle to win back support no matter how well we play. I think the club has lost the 'goodwill' of too many fans and it's going to take years, or a campaign such as special pricing for the anniversary year, to win them back. Think about the average fan who's stopped coming to games and takes only a passing interest (TV footage, press coverage, etc) at the moment. He'll still see a team in the 15th-18th place range in the table, performing inconsistently and with fewer known names on the teamsheet than in previous seasons. Unless he makes a determined effort to look for anything to the contrary, he'll be oblivious to the fact that the team are playing some good football.

Suppose someone does manage to see past all that and decides to turn up for the next home game. He'll now more than likely be confronted with a £30 price tag for that game and will simply say 'sod it' anyway.

5) I have no issues with the 3/4 season tickets, but how big an impact do these actually have? We've sold 1/2 season tickets for as long as I can remember and I'd be intrigued to know how many sales these generate in a typical season. Unless it's something exceptional like the Premiership promotion season then I doubt we get a big upturn in sales based on casual attendees being converted.

Maybe it generates a better return this season as there may be some fans who want to attend regularly and can see that this option is better than stumping up on a game by game basis, but this is still a reflection on the matchday pricing issues more than anything else. It also still doesn't address the issues of many fans who can't/won't commit for a full season in advance, and hence don't buy season tickets in the first place.

6) Again, I think this is a reaction to the cynicism which many fans have for BFC's marketing tactics. I also think it's disgraceful that they exploited a huge amount of goodwill (those people dropping leaflets, etc) when it was their decision making which caused the problem in the first place. The fact is that cheap ticket prices do impact attendances if they're marketed correctly. Just look at your comment on the Crystal Palace attendance figure for an example of this!

7) Used it this season and thought it was excellent, but it doesn't overcome the issues of those who can't afford season tickets, even paid over 3 months.

8) I've been a season ticket holder since 1995/6 and can safely say that I'm not aware of what this current scheme is, so it hasn't exactly been marketed well as far as I'm concerned. I remember these schemes from a few years ago but they were basically loan applications and carried a hefty interest charge so were no better than putting a season ticket on an credit card. I honestly couldn't tell you anything about the current scheme, as I'm oblivious to it.

9) There is no doubt that the general economic climate has been a factor and I would expect that we're particularly badly hit by this as we operate in a generally working class area. However, that's the same demographic that we've always had and BFC continue to appear to be ignorant to it. They appear to have learnt nothing from the experiences over the miners' strike era.

To your points:
1) Agree 100% that there's a tipping point and that we're over it. Much as I want to be there, I doubt I'll be going to the Leeds away game, on principle, for the same reasons.

3) 100% BFC's fault. Don Rowing should take full responsibility for this.

4) 100% BFC's fault. Don Rowing should take full responsibility for this.

5) I've been impacted by this recently. Just bought tickets for 2 friends who are visiting and coming for the DRFC game. Thankfully, both are good enough sports to have paid the £30 price, but one did comment that it's almost as much as he pays for Man Utd games. Also, the final price wasn't just £30, as there was a £3 internet charge for booking the tickets, so total cost to each will be £31.50.

I'm frustrated that I couldn't get them the matchday saving as a season ticket holder, but not a 1912 club member, but I doubt the club will change this as it potentially means people can get savings through season ticket holding friends, rather than signing up to the 1912 club directly.

6) I sincerely hope they do something like this. It would, at the very least, restore some of the goodwill lost in recent times and could potentially swell the attendances for several seasons beyond the first one. However, I suspect it's far too radical for current management to be able to stomach this.

7) We're already in the miners strike situation due to the huge loss of supporter goodwill. I'm immune to a lot of what's happened, as a season ticket holder, but it doesn't make me any less angry about these issues. If I was a casual fan I think I'd have given up on BFC a while ago so can sympathise with those who choose to take that decision.

As for getting involved, I'd love to help out in getting views across. However, the last time I did that formally resulted in receiving a letter that was the worst piece of PR I've ever encountered, and that was received directly from the Chairman at the time. Thankfully he's no longer at the Club, but my expectations relating to the current general manager are as low as I could imagine. I've never met him, or had any direct dealings with him, but he appears to me to be central in everything that is wrong with the running of this club and I have little confidence that anything will change for the better as a result of 'fan interaction'.

 

The Club lost sponsorship from the Chronicle for the Family Stand. One of the effects of this was that adult season ticket prices for those people who used to sit there and were now classed as East Stand Upper were larger than for any other group of Season Ticket holders.

There are definitely reduced numbers sitting in this part of the ground now. By implication as this was the 'Family Stand' if the adult chose not to renew a season ticket then at least one other supporter would be lost.

With regard to the reduction in the numbers going through the gate, at first sight, a reduction of 1683 pro-rata is a bigger reduction for us than most other teams are seeing.

 

I couldnt care less how 'nice' the guy acts. He is an inept fool and his decisions prove this. There will be hundreds of ideal people out there who would do a far better job. Experienced or not. A bright, young visionary would be my choice. Or even a successful woman. But, and this is why he wont get the boot, he is a puppet. He makes all the sh*tty decisions that Cryne orders him to. So that we fans blame him, rather than Perfect Patrick... it makes me laugh when Barry Taylor refers to Don as a well-respected director in the league, with 25 years experience at SCUNTHORPE!
Wow, what a job he did there then eh? Christ..
And how come a respected guy like Don Rowing (allegedly) is constantly referred to as 'Don Rowling'
'John Rowling'
'Ron Rowing'
and my personal favorite,
'Rod Dowling'
Surely, folk would get a man with a prestigious reputations name right??
Even John Ryan called him John Rowing last year. And most other local figures of football name Cryne when talking about us. Even though, according to 'Rod' and Taylor, Paddy isnt involved at all. Especially alateley.
But hey ho.
Im up for helping the club in any way that I can. As I have always done, and recieved **** all gratitude.. unless a price-increase constitutes thanks in the eyes of The DON..

 

Best post ever

Sums up what all fair minded, loyal fans, be it ST holders,exiles or occasional/lapsed attendees think imho.

 

Re: Best post ever

Oh, and thanks to both Gally and Sheriff.
Both of your opinions/thoughts were informative and well said.
Agree entirely, especially with Sheriff

 

Re: Excellent post - the 125th anniversary next season is a massive carrot to build o

We wouldnt be making a massive loss, A fair few of our STs this year are kids free ones

 

Economy is a big factor but despite an excellent manager ambition is pure survival

not the fault of playing staff or management but if there is no ambition to compete with sides in top half of table what is the real incentive for non diehard supporters?
1) A big chunk of the stay aways are season ticket holders and ours our one of the cheapest in the league. It's been said but some of these people have reasons that aren't just financial.
2) There is the Oakwell 1912 Club for the regular pay on the day fan
3) It's a difficult balancing act to try and keep the club a float. The club don't want to end up in Admin again. We dont have the luxury of PC making up the shortfall this year so it has to be funded somehow.
4) Prior to this season we have had to endure some poor quality of football at times. This will put some people off and its a more difficult thing to control from a club management point of view. Hopefully the type of performance we saw on tuesday will start to tempt a few people back
5) The club have introduced a 3/4 season ticket this season.
6) We've seen simply making a few games cheap does not encourage enough fans back and it isn't sustainable financially.
7) The club have an installment scheme for season ticket holders to try and help
8) The club have a savings scheme available all year for season tickets to try and help.
9) There has been a downturn in fans across the leagues. We are not as bad as other clubs. Some average gates so far:

Home Team 2010-11 2011-2012 Change
Barnsley 11563 9957 -1683
Doncaster 10895 9864 -1243
Leeds United 26820 22660 -4126
Millwall 12088 11558 -998
Hull City 21326 18157 -3320
Crystal Palace 14654 15169 -238 (Had 1 family promotion game where they had a 20,000+ gate to improve it)
Bristol City 14169 13124 -1348
Leicester 23826 22417 -2029
Nottingham Forest 24500 22883 -660
Middlesborough 16312 17416 1077
Ipswich Town 21813 19133 -2696
Watford 13207 12256 -1494
Derby County 25685 25289 -2003
Burnley 15105 14158 -1192
Cardiff City 22659 21949 -1033
Coventry City 16875 14570 -2013
Portsmouth 15377 13624 -2419
Reading 17287 17382 -656


And my views:

1. I think there is a psychological price point above which some people won't pay for tier 2 football. £30 is the other side of this in my view. This applies to home and away fans. What percentage of fans stay away at the £30 price point? If its anywhere near 17% then the club haven't achieved anything by increasing the CAT A pricing other than putting some of our own fans off. Anecdotal evidence from Leicester fans is that around 1000 of their fans did indeed boycott Oakwell. Its a difficult one to prove either way though. Where is the tipping point? What is the optimum price? Maybe £30 is close to the optimum price for maximising the revenue and enabling us to meet our financial comitments? It's a difficult situation for club. Keeping the club afloat vs Getting more fans back.
3. A lot of our fans don't know when games are £16, £23 or £30 and therefore assume they are all £30.
4.Casual fans won't be encouraged back for the odd game when it's £30 unless we are either top of the league or playing Man U. Sad but true. The Oakwell 1912 club does nothing for these fans
5. Less occasional visitors to Oakwell e.g. Fans family or friends are being put off by the £30 one off ticket price. Extending the Oakwell 1912 pricing to season ticket holders to buy match tickets might help but I suspect getting this message across would be the issue.
6. Could the club take a radical approach next season and use the 125 year anniversary as a way of relaunching the fan base by means of one of these pledge schemes. The more fans pledge to buy a season ticket the cheaper season ticket prices become. Get 20,000 people and its £125 each for example. It's worked for Bradford, Huddersfield, Bradford Bulls etc in the past.
7. The free season tickets for U12 is a brilliant intitiative. I have to wonder how older Kids, who are the future of the club, afford £18 quid to come to a cat a game. The danger is that they won't get into the habit of coming. They won't be the future fan base. We are in danger of another situation like the miners strike where the club turned its back on fans in difficult times and felt the repercussions generations later!

On a side note, The Supporters Trust would like to work more with the club to help promote it to new and stay away fans but there are only so many "doers" We need people who care about he club to step up and get involved![/QUOTE]

 

what a load of cack
How dare you whitey go against Mr CRYNE . How dare you doubt is decisions and what he does for bfc.

YOU dont know what goes off at oakwell like i dont. You dont know mr rowing like i dont know him but hes trusted by Mr cryne and that means alot. Mr cryne is from what ive read a tiger in business and if he smells people working for him that dont knoe whay they are doing he will jump all over them and they will be gone. Mr rowings from what i undestand well up in football and is involed a lot in football. I think hes involved with the academy board set up and he might even be chairman.