Is it time we changed to bio-fuels?

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board ARCHIVE' started by Red Fern, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. Red

    Red Fern New Member

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    Maybe get some chip pan fat in it.
    I've heard it'll run like a dream, and ya get the added bonus of smelling of chips wherever ya go..... (Y) :)
     
  2. Rev

    Revvie P Well-Known Member

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    This is something I looked into last time as both me and the wife run diesel cars.
    The diesel engine was actually designed as to run on vegetable fat but at that time, mineral oil was so cheap it was simply not cost effective to do so. At that time, when crude oil was distilled to create (among other things) petroleum, "heavy oil" (now called diesel) was pretty much a waste product. However, with minimal modification, Professor Diesel made his engine use this byproduct and thus created a niche for his design.

    Problem is, since this minimal modification was necessary, it now means diesel cars will not run on chip fat "straight out of the box". You either have to modify the car, or (more realistically for most) the fuel.

    Fuel can be made from a mix of vegetable oil, methylated spirits and sodium hydroxide. This extracts glycerol from the source fat and leaves behind what is commonly referred to as biodiesel. It is perfectly legal to run your car on such fuel as long as you notify the Inland Revenue that you're producing it and keep records of amounts to calculate the tax.

    Unfortunately the government were not forthcoming with a tax break for biodiesel users despite the fact it is renewable. The discussions, which took place in 2002, went a bit like this:

    Biofuel co: "We'd like a tax break for our fully renewable fuel"
    Govt: "Nope, we already give a tax break for LPG. If you want to save tax, you can use that."
    Biofuel co.: "Do you know what 'LPG' stands for?"
    Govt: "No."
    Biofuel co: "It stands for 'Liquid Petroleum Gas' - it is a fossil fuel and not in any way renewable"
    Govt: "Ummm...well, you can't have a tax break and that's that."

    So to run your car on biofuels works out at about 60p per litre including tax.

    Now comes the bad news. The equipment to safely make this stuff and separate useful fuel from the glycerol without blowing your garage up in the process, costs about £4500 - you'd need to use a lot to break even. Then there's the problem that if every bit of spare land in the UK was used to grow rapeseed to make diesel, it'd only cover about 0.4% of national diesel usage. Although across Europe, this figure is nearer 6% as most places are more sparsely populated. Then comes the fact that most of the UK's "spare land" has already been earmarked in the UK to grow conifers for wood fired power stations.

    Lost again on the government is the fact that rapeseed grows so fast, if they grew it on the spare land, collected the seed, pressed out the oi to make diesell, then passed the pressed seeds and plant stalks on for combustion in power stations, it would still produce more calories per unit area per year than the bloody conifers!

    However, on the plus side, the EU have seen the benefits and by 2012 all diesel fuel purchased at pumps across Europe will be a minimum of 4% biological extracts.

    If you look on the web there are "homebrew" recipes for biodiesel without the expensive kit but whether I'd go near my car with crudely made fuel I'm not sure. Though I must say some of the biofuels on petroldirect.com do sound very promising [​IMG]
     
  3. Spa

    Spartacus Well-Known Member

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    Well..A guy I know in NI

    ..runs his fairly new Mercedes Benz on cooking oil from Netto ALL the time..no bother. Stinks a bit like a chip shop but at about 30p a litre who give a stuff.

    Top gear showed it where I think uou add a bit of thinners to cooking oil to modify the viscosity.

    I'll get you the finer points if you wish.
     
  4. Rev

    Revvie P Well-Known Member

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    bring it on!

    The other problem with chip fat without glycerol removal, is that at 8 celcius it starts to congeal so it is no good fro the winter.  But as a short term fix for if these fuel strikes begin to take the p|ss, I'd be very interested.
     
  5. Spa

    Spartacus Well-Known Member

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    OK..I'll mail him tomorrow morning.
     
  6. Rev

    Revvie P Well-Known Member

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    Cheers pal (nt)
     
  7. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    Any chance you could post it on here?

    I'd be very interested in it and as diesel has almost broken the quid a litre figure I guess a few others would too.
     
  8. Spa

    Spartacus Well-Known Member

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    I'll see what I can do. I am sure that the info's on the net..

    ..but its re-assuring to talk to someone who actually uses it.
     
  9. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    cheers
     
  10. Rev

    Revvie P Well-Known Member

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    RE: Well..A guy I know in NI

    <font face="Times New Roman,Georgia,Times"> A little bit of research turned this up:

    Of particular interest is the line about &quot;if it were that easy we'd have done it years ago.&quot; - it's a good point. Why do people go to this much trouble if it's as easy as wang in some chip fat and Bob's your uncle.

    Still, I'd like to see what your Irish friend is doing and how he and his car are getting on.
    </font>
     

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