I've written a piece about BFC's finances and the challenge facing Keith Hill...

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board ARCHIVE' started by Journo Tyke, Jan 27, 2012.

  1. Journo Tyke

    Journo Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    14,115
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Mortgage and Protection Advisor
    Location:
    People's republic of Yorkshire
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    Journo Tyke, Jan 27, 2012
    #1
  2. wakeyred

    wakeyred Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    10,126
    Likes Received:
    8,906
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    the clues in my imaginative online moniker
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Nice article, I agree 100% -
     
    wakeyred, Jan 27, 2012
    #2
  3. Cap

    Capital Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,977
    Likes Received:
    808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    LONDON SW
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    An interesting piece, agree with much of what you say; it's so discouraging when your best talent is picked off by more wealthy clubs. Well done.
     
    Capital Tyke, Jan 27, 2012
    #3
  4. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    23,677
    Likes Received:
    14,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    HERE.
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    decent article, not sure how we can combat £500,000 release clauses when players we want (hammel) refuse to sign if they are not inserted.
    at the end of the day its just a food chain we are not the only victims in this, perkins refused to sign at colchester and came to us.
     
    Marlon, Jan 27, 2012
    #4
  5. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    43,654
    Likes Received:
    32,526
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On Sofa
    Style:
    Barnsley
    It's not about having a fixed policy that we apply to all players

    It's about recognising talent early and acting accordingly. Something we simply don't do.

    Jacob Butterfield has always been a good prospect, but it was obvious to me last season he was more than that, he was already a good player. Contract negotiations should have begun Christmas 2010 or Easter 2011 and a long term contract should have been signed and sealed long before this season began. By the time the rest of the country came sniffing around him he should have been tied down to our football club.

    I can understand why Vaz Te was only given a one year contract. What I can't understand is why, by January this year, he hadn't been offered another one. Maybe at the beginning of December he wouldn't have signed another contract. But maybe he would. And it was pretty obvious to anyone by the time we'd played Palace on the 6th of December that we'd unearthed a gem. Yet in January we were saying that Vaz Te can't have turned down a new contract because he hadn't been offered one. It's only a month, but it's a month that changed Vaz Te from a player that no one in the world of football cared about to a bright young talent who can go for free in the summer. If we were a bit quicker off the mark then maybe we could have tied him down to a contract before his head had been turned. As it is we're almost certain to lose him.

    I don't know who is supposed to do that job. Whoever it is they're not making it work for this football club.
     
    Jay, Jan 27, 2012
    #5
  6. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    23,677
    Likes Received:
    14,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    HERE.
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    Re: It's not about having a fixed policy that we apply to all players

    you cannot put vaz te in that category he was a gamble,there was never any doubt about his ability he had it in abundance the doubt was his workrate and attitude. if hill had given him a longer contract on his first few games he may well have reverted back to his old attitude. sat back knowing he was getting paid then performing for a new contract. in my opinion hill has done the right thing, if he doesn't perform he can get shut thats probably why he's performing as he has.
    i don't think clubs will be too quick to come in for him don't forget no one wanted him pre season mainly his attitude to the game as i've said there's no doubting his ability.
     
    Marlon, Jan 27, 2012
    #6
  7. tosh

    tosh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    6,328
    Likes Received:
    3,186
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    North Sea
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    Be wary of contract laws

    The Bosman 1995 and Webster 2006 outcomes have made it a more of a minefield than before. I can see why some clubs are very wary.
     
    tosh, Jan 27, 2012
    #7
  8. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    34,548
    Likes Received:
    24,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Farnham
    Style:
    Barnsley
    Good article

    agree with most of that - in particular the bit about our players being worth a lot less than if they played for a "big" club

    The only bit I am less sure about is the loan players - they undoubtedly have a role to play but we can never make any money from them- or keep them if they turn out to be good

    - its the likes of Butterfield and Vas Te and possibly Steele where we could make serious money or even better hang on to help change from being (in the eyes of the football world) relegation certainties to playoff contenders

    Blackpool and Burnley have done it and we have a in the not too distant past - we can do it again but not if we let our best players go on the cheap
     
    Farnham_Red, Jan 27, 2012
    #8
  9. Journo Tyke

    Journo Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    14,115
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Mortgage and Protection Advisor
    Location:
    People's republic of Yorkshire
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    Yeah Vaz Te is a tricky one...

    One thing I was going to mention but the article was getting too long was that maybe we could have given him (and anyone brought in under similar circumstances) a one year contract with an option for an extra year, or if he made 20 apps or something.

    Jay's summed it up well as with Butterfield.

    We've certainly left it too late.
     
    Journo Tyke, Jan 27, 2012
    #9
  10. KFC

    KFC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,754
    Likes Received:
    2,059
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Re: It's not about having a fixed policy that we apply to all players

    Bang on
     
    KFC, Jan 27, 2012
    #10
  11. Che

    Chef Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    19,971
    Likes Received:
    13,161
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    West Stand Bogs
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley
    Re: It's not about having a fixed policy that we apply to all players

    totally agree. Can't understand why Butterfield was not tied down to a 4 year contract last year. Madness.
     
    Chef Tyke, Jan 27, 2012
    #11
  12. Ext

    Extremely Northern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    11,753
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Professional Northerner.
    Location:
    Preparing for the 4th division
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Well said

    It's my opinion that the complacency and lack of proactive action outlined in what you've posted pervades this club in relation to all activities. Not blaming the footsoldiers, just the generals.
     
    Extremely Northern, Jan 27, 2012
    #12
  13. Journo Tyke

    Journo Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    14,115
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Mortgage and Protection Advisor
    Location:
    People's republic of Yorkshire
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    Journo Tyke, Jan 28, 2012
    #13
  14. Matt1575

    Matt1575 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,186
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Tarn
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Spot on, pal. How others can speculate about our contract policies without being aware of the true facts is beyond me. There are so many complications surrounding contracts these days it is unbelievable.
     
    Matt1575, Jan 28, 2012
    #14
  15. Men

    Menai Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    11,081
    Likes Received:
    7,824
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Earth
    Style:
    Barnsley
    Re: Yeah Vaz Te is a tricky one...

    But then that would still be up to the player to decide to activate the clause - ala Andy Gray in the summer.
     
    Menai Tyke, Jan 28, 2012
    #15
  16. Journo Tyke

    Journo Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    14,115
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Mortgage and Protection Advisor
    Location:
    People's republic of Yorkshire
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    Surely the point of this board and football blogs etc etc is to discuss and speculate?

    I am aware that contract negotiations are very complicated, but it seems funny how Barnsley seem to get a raw deal even compared to smaller clubs re losing players on the cheap... Scunny got £2m+ for Hooper, Donny have not had to sell Sharp cheaply etc. There are hundreds of examples if I had the time to recite them.

    I'm sure Barnsley don't deliberately do it, but I am convinced we could be smarter - if you believe everything's done perfectly and we have to accept what always happen now fair enough. You seem to now have all this inside information.
     
    Journo Tyke, Jan 29, 2012
    #16
  17. Journo Tyke

    Journo Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    14,115
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Mortgage and Protection Advisor
    Location:
    People's republic of Yorkshire
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    Re: Yeah Vaz Te is a tricky one...

    Not necessarily, the club can have such a clause to instigate too. Or for example, play 25 games or more and it's automatically renewed.
     
    Journo Tyke, Jan 29, 2012
    #17
  18. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    12,282
    Likes Received:
    12,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Re: Yeah Vaz Te is a tricky one...

    Allen - agree entirely with you. It's the same sentiments - albeit better expressed - as I made when I posted my now legendary "This Club Is Going Nowhere" posts!

    Clearly we need a change of mentality at the club. In my view that necessitates new ownership. Not someone who is going to pump in millions - that would be lunacy - but someone who is prepared to let the cards run a bit and see where it takes us. Obviously someone, or a group of people, who are well-heeled enough not to have to worry about the shorter term. It also necessitates a Board/chief exec with more intelligence and ability, in order to maximise our position as you describe.

    As things stand, the current approach, allied with the hike in admission prices, has been enought to see me off - and a fair few others by the look of the gates - until something changes.
     
    orsenkaht, Jan 30, 2012
    #18
  19. 'thereev'

    'thereev' Banned Idiot

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    9,047
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Company Director
    Location:
    Monte Carlo
    Re: Yeah Vaz Te is a tricky one...

    £23 to watch that !!
     
    'thereev', Jan 30, 2012
    #19

Share This Page