Just need to clarify a few points

I'm getting confused now about what people want the club to do. There are so many contradicting messages I thought I'd start a thread where we can clarify.

Apparently, Hillcroft didn't help Vaz Te - he just decided to pull his finger out eventually. Therefore we aren't able to give them any credit for his sudden and unexpected rise from mediocrity.

Playing young lads from the academy is no longer a positive thing, where our team is represented by talented local lads desperate to play for us. Those who complained about foreign mercenaries who don't give a damn have now changed their mind - we're just being cheap and unambitious.

Paying over the odds in transfer fees and wages is now something we should strive to do, as value for money means **** all to any serious football club. Buying players who we may sell for an increased transfer fee and developing them isn't acceptable and we must go back to signing players like Mike Sheron even if it puts the long and short term future of the club in jeopardy.

We must offer all players 3 years contracts as minimum to ensure that we don't get stiffed on transfer fees when it comes to the inevitable (despite Hillcroft's best efforts to bully them into quitting football althogether - a la Vaz Te) and they prove themselves to be excellent footballers (again, nothing to do with Hillcroft). We will completely ignore the fact that the majority of players won't move on immediately to other clubs and that we'd have never attracted the same players on 3 year deals as they only want 12/24 month contracts on the wages we can offer.

We will refuse to accept any price increases and continue to petition the club to lower prices back in line with league 2 and conference clubs. Whilst saying this we will continue to say things like "You pay league 2 wages you get league 2 players" and "if you sign 11 players from league 2 you are a league 2 team". We will completely ignore the fact that there is a huge monetary deficit present between the two statements.

If any other club in our league or those below sign a player, we will claim that they have got a bargain and that he was exactly the type of player we should be looking at. If only Hillcroft would get off their arses and stop being obsessed with Rochdale we might have got him instead.

We will claim the club need to be more optimistic, and learn how to excite the fans whilst continually moaning about EVERYTHING under the sun. Keith Hill's accent, birthplace, son's swimming lessons and taste in music will be used in the event we run out of the things to moan about.

Finally, any player we do sign, we will use one of 3 excuses to convince the player that we think they're ***** before they've even kicked a ball.

1. If they were any good why has no-one else signed them?
2. We will pick through their statistics/past to dig up any information that can be used to dampen spirits around Oakwell.
3. We will claim "they're hardly box office" because Patrick Cryne said he wanted to sign someone like that 4 years ago.

I think that covers everything. Either that, or we could just get behind the club and see what happens?

 

The more I read your post

The more I like it.

 

you missed the main point:its got to the stage on this board that a lot of w@nkers have been coming on recently and all thet want to do is slag the players/hillcroft/board/club, no matter what happens, they go off on half cocked crusades when they dont know the facts and convince themselves that are football saviors. beckham,scholes, and giggs want to sign for the club but only on a 12 month contract do we tell them to **** off ?. WE ARE NOT A BIG CLUB, WE AINT GOT MILLIONS TO PLAY WITH, WE HAVE GOT TO DO THE BEST WE CAN WITH WHAT WE'VE GOT. as to the w@nkers just crawl back into your holes and come out when you've grown up. NEXT SEASON............ ONWARDS AND UPWARDS. UREDS. !!!!!!!!!!

 

Do you think players would turn down a two year contract?? As proved by a certain Mr Shackell modern day contracts are not worth the paper they are written on from a club's point of view. The player can't lose. If he's not up to scratch he's still got another year on his contract to play with and if a better offer comes along he WILL get a move. Clubs don't hold on to want away players but (and here's the important thing) they DO make more money.

The club gets some things right but at the moment is getting far too many things wrong as far I'm concerned. I do enjoy reading posts from the apologists for the club though. Basically if you don't give your full backing to everything the club does then you're a ****.

 

It seems to me now that when we celebrate a goal or when we feel hard done by through a poor decision is the only time that our fans are united.

 

Quality post JDB.

I nearly lost the will to live yesterday when I read a post saying 'we won't sign him he hasn't played for Rochdale'.

I really don't understand why if supporting the club makes people so fundamentally unhappy they continue to do so. I used to think fans should support the club regardless but if it gets to the point where you're hoping we lose so you can revel in saying 'I told you so' you've already stopped supporting the club so why keep up any pretence you're a fan?

And the response that 'you can't criticise the club on here without being vilified' doesn't wash. What's doing people's heads in is that every tiny thing the club does is criticised by some posters.

 

i'm not saying the club get everything correct, but the way that the football saviors berate every little thing the club do ( on half a story or my mates dads cousins vets aunties milkman says he knows a guy that once saw a picture of oakwell so he knows what hes on about,) and as for all this Rochdale stuff, if keef has only got x amount of cash surely it makes sense to go for a player that he knows about and may have the potential to improve. my problem is with the pricing if a persons only got so much spare cash thats all hes got, but surely200 people at £20 is not as good as 400 at £10 fuller ground and better pie/program sales, or each match £20 or next 3 £50. how many clubs are within a 1hr drive of us and if theyre offering better v.f.m. or better football where are the floating fans going togo

 

After Butterfield was injured and Vaz Te and Drinkwater left the club, Keith brought in Smith, Cotterill, Tonge, Golborne, Nouble, Collins and Dawson. If he's only got a limited budget he's not spending it particularly well.

It also seems with your last comments that you are critcising the club's ticket pricing policy. Sort of goes against your entire argument.

 

Just out of interest, which of those do you think were a waste of money? Personally I think Goldbourne, Dawson and Collins are very good acquisitions. Cotterill also played well in a couple of games but admittedly didn't look the player I expected. Tonge was always a risk with his injury record but did ok when he was on the pitch.

 

you missed o'brien and perkins injured all 5 of the midfield gone and to be honest in front of that midfield i think i could be a 20 goal a season striker.golbourne, collins and dawson seem ok. i havent got a problem with people critisising the club its the viscious and non stop way they do it and the fact that no matter what the club does its wrong. i know that some of the people ( is it trolls they're called) just do toget a reaction and think its big and clever but i bet they would'nt try winding people up at 10'o'clock on a saturday night in the club to see if they got one. i just cannot see the point in slagging the club off, have your say and a debate about it by all means but some people just go to far,

 

Tonge is a good player but too inury prone so doesn't offer vfm. Smith was poor. Cotterill has a shocking attitude. We already knew Nouble is a carthorse. Golborne has shown a bit of promise. Jury still out on Collins and Dawson but I'm not particularly hopeful. If these players are good enough why were we unable to bring an end to our terrible form?? If all these other players are supposed to be up to it like Perkins and McNulty why were we so bad with these players in the team?

 

very elloquently put thats what i was trying to say

 

because 50% of the outfield went in a short period of time and then to try and get players ( ok from a lower league where its a big step up style and fitness wise) to gel into a side is very difficult as we saw,it takes time, unfortunately that is the one thing we did'nt have we got away with it just,on a technicality. just for a hypothetical question i wonder if you got a player that barnsley, sheff weds, leeds, all wanted i wonder what the difference in pricing/personal terms would be for him to sign for us ( us not being a so called big club and not very fashionable)well for me thats what we're up against and it dont help when sections are having a pop all the time

 

Well Perkins hardly played after Christmas to be fair. I know you really don't rate him but in a 5 man midfield with a creative player he was excellent. Dawson was injured for the first 6 weeks and was rushed back but he had a couple of very good games. I thought we actually played well in quite a few games towards the end of the season once players started to come back but were painfully missing Butterfield or a creative player of his ilk. My major criticism is that we didn't get the full backs forward enough and rarely got the ball to the byline. This doesn't require any particular creativity but is what opens up teams. Had we done that more with the amount of possession we had I think we would have got better results.

 

I have seen/heard nothing but support for Sidney's swimming lessons.

 

Re: The more I read your post

I agree.

 

Bear with me here...

Craig Davies - Chesterfield (League Two) FREE
David Perkins* - Colchester (League One) FREE
Scott Wiseman* & Matty Done* - Rochdale (League One) Undisclosed
Jimmy McNulty - Brighton (League One) Nominal
Rob Edwards - Blackpool (Premier League) FREE
Ricardo Vaz Te - (Unattached) FREE
Chris Dagnall* - S****horpe (League One) Undisclosed
Scott Golbourne - Exeter (League One) Undisclosed
Stephen Dawson - Leyton Orient (League One) Undisclosed
David Cotterill - (Unattached) FREE

Miles Addison - Derby (Championship) LOAN
Cameron Park - Middlesbrough (Championship) LOAN
Danny Drinkwater - Man Utd (Premier League) LOAN
Nile Ranger - Newcastle (Premier League) LOAN
Michael Tonge - Stoke (Premier League) LOAN
Korey Smith - Norwich (Premier League) LOAN
Frank Nouble - West Ham (Championship) LOAN
Lee Collins - Port Vale (League Two) LOAN
David Button* - Spurs (Premier League) LOAN
Kallum Higginbotham* - Huddersfield (League One) LOAN

Lee Collins - Port Vale (League Two) Undisclosed
Kelvin Etuhu* - (Unattached) FREE

*denotes players that have played at Rochdale.

Of Hillcroft's 22 recruits - 13 permanent, 9 loanees - 7 have played for Rochdale (2 are returned loans, the other 5 are under contract at BFC)

More than a 3rd of their permanent signings, have Rochdale links.

Keith Hill has admitted (last week) that he has interest in Chris O'Grady - ex-Rochdale.

So, when people on this forum bring up the "has he played for Rochdale?" line, are they ACTUALLY being a "troll", or a "w@nker", or are they just pointing out a common theme in the management's recruitment policy?

I don't think it matters at all - personally - where we recruit our players from, so long as they perform when pulling on the famous Barnsley red. But whilst it may be boring for some on here to read posts criticising the influx of ex-Dale players, I find it boring when I read posts calling other users "trolls" and "w@nkers" for stating the bleeding obvious!
Nearly half of the incoming permanent signings made by Keith Hill and David Flitcroft have played for Rochdale.
If it is now considered 'trolling' to post an accurate fact on this message board then I'm guilty 24/7.

And remember, my gripes with Keith are not about his recruitment. As I said earlier, he can sign players from wherever he wants for me, so long as they are good enough/perform etc etc.
My fears/worries/complaints with the manager are in the main - and not unfairly - regarding his tactical nous, his motivational skills, and his stubbornness.
I'm hoping that he will improve in those areas. Tactically, I think he will do after having had a years experience at this level. I expected a great motivator when I called for his appointment. He certainly came across like one initially. But to fail to reverse a deficit in 48 league and cup games leaves me wondering if he's as good a recovery strategist as he claimed last August.
But it's the stubborn nature of the fella that has me most worried. I think that's a character trait, and can't be altered. To continually select Scott Wiseman last season beggared belief IMO. He was the weak link from January onwards, and was frequently targeted by each opposing team - with much joy. Those who claim we had no other right back are ignorant. Young John Stones, Lee Collins, hell, even an injured Bobby Hassell would have been a better option.
But Keith's stubborn nature also showed itself in his repeated attacks on the fanbase, his repetitive interviews regarding the budget, and amazingly, telling 8,000 fans who had already seen how bad Frank Nouble was that he was a "no-brainer" of a signing. And, despite Frank's inability to prove we were wrong about him 12 months previously, Keith continued to select him, in what I can only put down to as an attempt to be proven correct. He failed. He did a similar thing with Dagnall, where after 4 or 5 games it was clear to most educated supporters that the lad hadn't the ability to play at this pace/level. He has no footballing brain. But Keith still picked him a further 4 or 5 times, without fruition. He finally bombed him out to Bradford where he failed miserably TWO divisions below us.

I don't want people to get me twisted though. I'm not a moaner. I saw many many good things last season, and Keith made more good signings than bad - loans aside. He got the best out of Jim O'Brien, Jacob Butterfield and Luke Steele. Something to be optimistic about when you consider the talented kids we have trying to break through. He clearly has the respect of the players - I haven't heard otherwise. Well, not since the Danny Haynes melee on Boxing Day.
So I'm right behind the management, and when they pull on the shirt at 3pm on matchdays, the players too. But as a paying supporter of over 24 years I am entitled to air my opinion where I see fit, and if I think a player is poor, I'll say so. I do and have criticised the club for what I see as poor pricing regards matchday tickets. And I do believe those in charge think small, and undervalue our club, to the point where that transmits itself onto the fanbase, which in turn affects the club negatively. Some will say it's realism, but come off of it. The majority of right-minded supporters are more than aware of the clubs standing in english football, and understand the financial circumstances. Most WOULD be happy/content with survival again next season, but we don't have to keep being reminded of that, or have it bigged up like it's the greatest achievement since the wheel was invented. Oakwell was a dreary, and depressing place since February. I turned up to games hoping for just a shot on target - a new low in my lifetime. So we needed a summer of hope and optimism, we needed positive vibes left, right and centre. And then perhaps the fans would pick up on that, and we truly could put the silly negative stuff away. But that positivity is glaring in it's absence...

^^^ Sorry for the long-winded, boring post. I was going to post a pair of tits in the middle of it but couldn't find a photo of Dagnall and Wiseman together...

UP THE TARN!

 

Re: Bear with me here...

The difference being you don't immediately criticise everything the club/manager does and are capable of adding balance and context to your arguments. Although it was quite amusing how quickly you fell out of love with Hill

I would add though that what annoys people isn't when someone points out that someone may have played for Rochdale, but the fact that it is implied as a negative.

 

Re: Bear with me here...

Fair point (the last one).

And I still love Keith. But as anybody with a brain would do, over his 12 month tenure, I have been affected by certain things, and so my love for him has slightly diminished. But there isn't anybody I'd rather have in charge (nobody that would come anyway), and I'm giving him another season of backing. I won't be calling for his head at any point in the coming season, but I will raise criticism where I feel it's warranted. I feel a forum such as this is the best place to show your displeasure etc, rather than booing or moaning at the match. But each to their own and all that I suppose.

IN KEEEEF I TRUST

 

Re: Bear with me here...

I just wish we could get a bit of a bandwagon of positivity going. To be fair to the Wednesday fans (and I hate saying it), given they've had very little cheer about (far less than us!) over the last 15 years they do create a bit of an aura around the club. 'We're all Wednesday aren't we' etc. There still a bunch of moaning gets, far worse than us, but they do get behind the team.

The key thing for me is just how much more rewarding success will be when it is based on being well run and within our means. That's why promotion to the Prem was so special