Keith's Record - Updated (As Promised)

After yesterday's match he now has 29 defeats from 56 games which is 51.8%. It's quite scary really. Breaking it down a bit, he lost 52.2% of matches last year so there has been a slight improvement so far this year as we have only lost 50% this season. Regarding PPG (which we can't judge him on), last year his rate was 1.04 and this year it's 1.1 which would amount to 50/51 which would just about keep us up.

Now remember, football is a results business for everyone except Keith. Other managers are judged on their results apart from Keith who is judged on layering, endeavour, John Stones and coats.

Next update will be W/E 20th October after the away match against Charlton Athletic.

 

serious question

who would you like to replace him, who would do a better job with the resources available - realistic suggestions only, bearing in mind that when we appointed him the only other options appeared to be Russell Slade and Kevin Blackwell

 

Re: serious question

Just stating the facts. Which too many people are seemingly oblivious to.

 

Re: serious question

It doesn't tell the whole story though does it? From what I have seen of us this season we are clearly moving in the right direction. Personally I think a manager needs three or four seasons to build a side. Occasionally something clicks like with Wilson when he first took over, but it still took two years of tinkering with the side before he took us up.

 

Re: serious question

But so are you. And you know it.

 

Re: serious question

Well i'd agree if we could hold onto our best players which we fail to do season on season, otherwise what the manager does is futile to progression in my eyes...

 

Re: serious question

that is a worry, but if our players are in demand, it suggests that the management team are doing something very right

 

Right - let's sack the management for having such a bad record - fact! IMO they're doing a great job and in spite of the historical facts - its the future that counts - and they are going in the right direction. Again we proved the better side against another promotional hopeful in Leeds, and their only shot was given to them by the ref by way of a very dubious penalty(how I wish Alnwick had just stood up and caught it and made Becchio look a ****). Our problem is singularly we can't score - and not just Deadwood - but Mellis early on and yes Stonesy at the end couldv'e should've scored. Keep playing this way and again goals will flow (or have you forgotten Birmingham already???)

 

Re: serious question

Nah let him carry on. It's interesting.

 

What I can't understand

Is why so many people get so upset by these posts from Conan.

He's simply posting statistical facts. Facts about how many games we've lost under Keith Hill. He's not making them up to prove a point, he's bang on with their accuracy. How on earth can you get so upset about facts?

And the only conclusion he's drawing is that these stats are not very good. He's damn right, they're not. He's not saying "look at these statistics, the manager has to go." He's never even alluded to that. Most of you think he's saying that, but he's clearly not. He's just saying they're not very good.

A good proportion of you are like religious fundamentalists when it comes to Keith Hill. They can't have a single aspect of their faith questioned without flipping out and you're the same about Keith Hill. You can't even cope with his managerial record being posted on this BBS without going mental. Literally mental. I think the adulation that Keith receives about everything from the clothes he wears and the things he says to the football his team plays is starting to grate on a few people when the reality of the situation is that his managerial record simply isn't that good. Conan is clearly one of these people. He's putting forward a different point of view, he's using statistical data to back up his argument, but the zealots can't take any form of dissent and just browbeat him in to submission.

Conan may be wrong in the long term. Keith Hill may turn out to be the must successful manager in Barnsley's history. I really hope he is. But at the moment he has every right to be sceptical because results wise we haven't moved on in the slightest since Keith has taken over. There should be room for both sides of the argument on this forum, but unfortunately there isn't. And it seems to me it's because some people no longer support Barnsley FC, they just support Keith Hill.

 

Re: What I can't understand

Heresy.

 

Spot on as usual Jay

 

Re: What I can't understand

People are getting fed up of people like him Jay. They really are.

When Barnsley beat Birmingham or Boro ... we'll never post.

The facts aren't everything. I've had a text off a Leeds fan yesterday and he was amazed at how Barnsley play. There Budgets twice that of Barnsley. They get 20,000 plus and charge 36 pound adult and 20ish pound kids. Barnsley have just competed with them and done so the last three times barnsley have played them.

We've got players like Perkins going up against International players and coming out of tops in lots of one on one situations. Look at there attack.


You listen to what the players are saying. I'm hearing great things from the younger players. They actually think they've got a chance. I've heard great things on the likes of player but more great things of record off people they know. Thats great.

 

Re: What I can't understand

Genuine question, who are Leeds international players?

 

Re: What I can't understand

Kenny, Kisnorbo, Green, i think Austins an international, McCormack, Diouf...

 

That's all great HT. but none of it gets POINTS. Which are what matter re staying in the division.

I think we are moving in the right direction with players starting to come through and some of the performances but if we don't turn these into points we will be at the wrong end of the table. This board exists to debate the good bad and the ugly and everything is not rosy. We can't seem to change things around and we seem obsessed with possession when they alone does not win games.

When it works it is great and there's nowt to say but when it doesn't that's when the debates start.

 

Re: What I can't understand

Are they all still current internationals?

 

It all depends if you believe we'll eventually 'get there' and how long you'll put up with inconsistent performances, or if you've chalked **** on Hill already.

As much as Hill has his disciples, there are some who will not give him or his signings a chance, despite their stated 'hope' we'll come good - they don't, they just want Hill out.

Some on both sides will not change their stance.

 

Points Per Game is far too simplistic, especially less than a quarter of the way through a season. It takes no account of the quality of opposition faced in the current season, whereas in a full season all the teams will have been played, and the quality is therefore evened out. I have bigger objections to the statistic than that however. Surely a better statistic would be £ per point i.e the budget divided by the number of points gained, thus allowing for the fact that you would not expect a team pulled together with next to nothing to compete with one assembled where money is no object. If your objective is to make a case that Mark Robins was a better manager than KH, I think that this statistic would prove you wrong. I dispute it based upon the entertainment offered by the two teams. I can also see holes in the £ per point statistic, but all of the holes I see would favour KH.

To summarise, all statistics have faults. Ultimately, people will support the manager that they have confidence in. I accept that you do not have confidence in KH, but do not try to justify yourself with false logic.

 

I get that but i think we should look at performances rather than results. You keep playing well and i think the points will come.

I think possession % are good at indicating along with Corner count and shots on target to see whos on top. I'll get comments from certain posters for saying this but the possession percentage's something all the teams that play matches at oakwell look at. The u18's get 70% possession in a lot of games. If you change Keith Hill then it would create a large gap between that system and the u18's.