Labour. The way forward.

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by StatisTYKE, May 9, 2021.

  1. StatisTYKE

    StatisTYKE Well-Known Member

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    I thought there were local by-elections this week but seeing a 30ft inflatable ‘Boris’ in Hartlepool I now realize it was a relaunch of ‘It’s a Knockout.’

    All this talk of Labour coming up with policies people can get behind, is the road to nowhere. Politics is clearly now all about entertainment, so if Labour are to win the next round, they need to fight fire with fire. For instance, these would have been two ideal choices for Labour leader

    1) Ken Dodd. As British as it gets. Funny hair, jokes AND tickling stick. Cabinet made up of Diddy men. “How tickled I am Mrs to be launching a ‘tattyfilarious’ new policy on mother in laws.”

    2) Captain Mainwaring As British as it gets. No hair BUT proven track record of standing on the white cliffs to see off johnny foreigner. Ready-made cabinet with the platoon. “Who do you think you are kidding Mr Johnson if you think old Labour’s done…” Mainwaring would be fantastic at PMQs staring in disbelief at a blithering Johnson before. “You stupid boy.”

    The punters would lap it up. And the above have that faint whiff of sleaze well all love so much, what with Ken’s brushes with the taxman and Walker’s black markeetering

    I know you’re going to say these are acts or fictional characters. Well so is ‘Boris.’ And at least there’s not a manipulative lying psychopath underneath Mainwaring or Dodd.

    As Lowe and Dodd are long gone but we need someone just as good. Any ideas?
     
  2. Lor

    Lordtyke Well-Known Member

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    Worzel Gummidge

    At least he'd match Johnson for hairstyle and brains
     
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  3. Dalestykes

    Dalestykes Well-Known Member

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    I think you'll need to change the electorate before the Leader. The current Labour Party is now on the wrong side of history.
     
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  4. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    Well have to wait till the Tory sleaze is even too much to bear even for the tabloids to stomach imo.
    It seems the demise of our NHS, Prison System, Police Force and public services in general are accepted in exchange for someone who’s some think is a laugh and a jolly jape as long as he ruffles his hair .
    Labours woes are there for all to see but to actually vote for the Tory’s instead of a protest vote as they have done we deserve all we get and going to get in future .
    Untill Winnie from Hartlepool or Willie from Wakefield realise there’s no NHS services just a shell in name only they’ll too late realise what they’ve done .
     
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  5. DusThaNoIII

    DusThaNoIII Well-Known Member

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    This OP's inability to discuss matters in anything but bad faith was clear the other day when he misquoted me as a 'gotcha' with a healthy dose of sneering disgust at anyone that doesn't follow his centrist opinions.

    I do think you are better than that though, Marlon.
    Have your thought that perhaps 'Winnie from Hartlepool' didn't go out and vote for the Tories as the media/ centrists are currently pushing to try and sell a further right wing picture of a dismantled labour party and you imply above?

    Looking at Hartlepool, Con gained 3660 votes, labour lost 6875 votes but the brexit party lost 10603 votes.

    Simple maths shows that 3660 of those that votes BXP could have now voted Con without 1 labour voter going CON.. So where are those voters? Well, the turnout was 11,104 less than 2019.

    The simple fact is that Kieth failed to inspire people to go and vote, and put an appalling NHS dismantling staunch remainer in what he complacently considered a safe seat.
     
  6. Dragon Tyke

    Dragon Tyke Well-Known Member

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  7. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

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    I’m not a great follower of mainstream news, but it was obvious to me that Starmer and other heavyweights had been up in Hartlepool (and elsewhere where it mattered) last week.

    but on the telly this morning from Hartlepool, a couple of ex-Labour voters who’d given a vote to the Tories, and gave their reasons, they were fed up of several big issues facing the country (unemployment, crime etc) and so it was time ‘to give the Tories a chance’.

    I s hit you not, the Tories are campaigning on an agenda of change (despite being in power for 11 years) and people are buying into it.

    now I’m the kind of bloke that gets really upset when I see the ‘thick working class Tories’ line, but what’s a better description? We have one of the most corrupt governments in the world, and people aren’t remotely interested in electing an alternative.
     
  8. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    Listening to the interviews of (supposedly) ordinary voters in Hartlepool lots of the Brexit party voters last time out were ex Labour voters and that went for Wakefield and others in the red wall.
    The right of the party are out in force with many of the centre of the party siding with them against the left .
    Left wing policies got labour its best ever amount of votes and the right wing press and media went after them unmercifully along with some of our own party .
    I’ve stated many times on here that although they don’t admit it but many voters are swayed by media opinion and some even on this board joining the blame the left craze .
    There’s as much turmoil in the Tory ranks which is pushed aside by the media and untill Murdoch and co have had enough of the Tory’s it’s an uphill battle imo.
     
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  9. DusThaNoIII

    DusThaNoIII Well-Known Member

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    @Donny-Red
    I’ve no doubt that it’s complicated. However, I think people absolutely do want a change but I also think that it is clear that about the only thing SIR Kieth does stand for is the status quo that has left these areas decimated. You’d struggle to find a more clear establishment figure anywhere never mind the Labour Party. What change or opportunity has he offered? He’s already lied and reneged on his leadership pledges and people can see that. Regardless of what the fervent supporters on here think, absolutely nobody votes for a party or PM because they are ‘grown ups’ with ‘forensic showings on PMQs’.

    I did see the interview you mention, and wonder how long the nodding and agreeing reporter spent looking for these people for the FBPE lot to sneer at. Reminds me of the people they interviewed in tarn after the brexit vote.

    You’d also be amazed how many ‘lifelong labour voters’ haven’t actually voted Labour in 20+ years when you scratch the surface.

    It’s a long road ahead.
     
  10. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

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    We don’t disagree on much, but you’re glossing over an issue... if it took a lot of effort for the bbc to find those folk, it wasn’t done so that I could sneer at them, that’d be weird.

    it was done to show other ‘traditional Labour voters’ that it’s perfectly legitimate to vote Tory. The whole ‘red wall’ story is manufactured in the media to prove to us that abandoning Labour is a sensible choice. Meanwhile the Tories are literally robbing us to give our money to their mates.

    And they can still make you believe that the most interesting story of the day is Keir Starmers leadership. :cool:
     
  11. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    I've seen this mentioned a few times now, that Starmer has allegedly lied and reneged on some pledges. I'm not a labour member and couldn't tell you what any such pledges were, on when he lied, or what he may have reneged on.

    Can you furnish me with the relevant info please? Thanks.
     
  12. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    The media bias has gone beyond ridiculous. It's hard to believe Leveson ever happened.

    I can tell you from first hand experience that the BBC political arm will dig far and wide to find someone who fits the view they want to present. Laura K interviewed me... crikey.... 15-16 years ago maybe when she was on the daily politics show.

    She'd needed someone independent from my industry, was in the vicinity, asked me some random questions over the phone, arranged an interview and then the edit they actually aired was Putinesque in its creativity which was used to bash Gordon Browns govt of the day.
     
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  13. StatisTYKE

    StatisTYKE Well-Known Member

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    Forget policies for a minute. You’ve got to choose between the following two as a leader.

    1. A man who is universally recognised as an out-and-out liar

    2. A man who is widely recognised as having integrity.

    If people want change, why are they opting for the liar? Surely they must realise that change will never happen because their leader will make promises he never intends to keep. Why are they doing that? Unless we can try and understand why, then there’s no way forward.
     
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  14. Deafening Silence

    Deafening Silence Well-Known Member

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    We've only ever had Tory or Tory-lite governments in this country in my life time.
    We've never had a socialist government, and we won't whilever people aren't educated into why it would be a good idea. The real socialists need to band together and hold their nerve and stop voting for Labour and vote for TUSC or similar instead. It needs a 20 year plan minimum to get a socialist government though the door and is reliant on changing the mind set of the entire electorate. Short of a massive natural disaster or war close to home i can't see it happening.
     
  15. Ex Bournemouth Red

    Ex Bournemouth Red Active Member

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    To flip this, at headline level, both parties said they would respect the referendum. Tories (first May then Johnson) carried on this mantra, then Boris promised to get Brexit done, which he has done.

    Labour went from saying they would respect the referendum to then being indecisive about whether they would or wouldn’t, then looking for a second referendum.

    So in the above case, who are the actual liars? Tories for saying they would get Brexit done, which they have, or labour for saying they would respect the referendum, which they didn’t want to do come. Election Day?

    This is what pro-Brexit remember. Yes, Boris had lied, but that is in the past, but he was truthful in getting Brexit done. How many people remember what paper he was editor for and what year he was sacked for lying?

    Its a bit like getting Wigan and Reading supporters, who’ve only supported them for the last 10 years or less, to accept that historic league positions and average attendances show them to be smaller teams then Barnsley.
     
  16. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

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    You’re right about Brexit and the Labour leadership, their messaging was awful (not lies - but awful).

    But Boris didn’t give up on lying 10 years ago. Have you been living under a rock? He lies continually and consistently, most weeks in PMQ’s he states something that’s simply not true. And he’s the first PM in living memory who doesn’t follow the protocol of correcting these ‘mistakes’.

    I don’t want to Labour a point, but what’s your opinion of him making promises to James Dyson to break tax laws within days of Dyson appointing Boris’ brother to his board of Directors?

    Or missing Cobra meetings to go out shopping for wallpaper paid for by his cronies?

    Is that level of corruption something you’re happy with because he ‘got Brexit done’?

    How do you feel about the complete decimation of the fishing industry caused by his ‘oven ready deal’?

    I was only going to ask one question but it’s like trying to pick your favourite Beatles track. :)
     
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  17. Ex Bournemouth Red

    Ex Bournemouth Red Active Member

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    Shouldn’t be a place for cronyism in politics, and I know Boris keeps lying, but how many of the people who’s voted him in in a red wall area actually watch PMQ’s, or read about them afterwards?

    Labour supporters are picking up on every lie (and rightly so) because they are looking out for it, but unless it becomes headline news the electorate that only see politics on the news at night or front page of a paper won’t pick up on it, all they know is he promised to get Brexit done, which he has, so therefore in their eyes he’s not a liar.

    It would be a bit like having a **** striker at the club, as a supporter you watch him week in, week out, and know he his ****, but if he goes on a decent scoring run by getting a few tap ins and lucky deflections people who only look at scoring charts and see him rising up them would think he’s a decent player.
     
  18. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    That's being really selective though. He is a liar. Because he's lied consistently through his life. Let's ignore the two instances he's been sacked for. Lying about an affair when in parliament. And lying about a source and quote to make up a completely fraudulent article.

    While London Mayor, he had an affair. The person he had an affair with was taken on trips around the world, given access to people she wouldn't have otherwise and given a "grant" for £126,000 that she didn't qualify for. He denied this. Many records and communications were purposefully destroyed and deleted upon his exit from the Mayors office. This is against protocol. A police enquiry was held but he couldnt be found guilty as he'd destroyed the information and denied the affair. Just a few weeks ago, Arcuri confirmed the affair. That is lying corruption and fraud.

    There were also damning insights from the Russia report he suppressed just a few months ago. The breaches in ethical standards for ignoring advice and allowing Patel to retain her job. He's been repeatedly rebuked for failing to declare income and interests. He lies about statistics repeatedly. he lied about the Northern Ireland protocol. He got the queen involved in an illegal proroguing of parliament.

    He heads up the government that has paid out billions of pounds to companies with tory donors and those with tory MPs having interests. Some not delivering and many not declared, and all not tendered for.

    We have the holiday to mustique which he still hasn't declared who paid for it despite the source he initially quoted emphatically denying they did so. And the current investigations into how he spent £200,000 on renovations to a flat that only had renovations and was redecorated a few years ago.

    And thats not even scratching the surface.

    If people want to vote for him, thats their choice. If they want to say other parties have lied, whether they have or haven't. thats their choice to do so. But what can never ever be allowed is to suggest Alexander DePfeffel Johnson is an honest man. He can't even be honest about his actual name.
     
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  19. winged avenger

    winged avenger Well-Known Member

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    Easy. Nowhere Man.
     
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  20. Ex Bournemouth Red

    Ex Bournemouth Red Active Member

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    Everything you’ve said is true - but how much of that is known about by the people who only think about politics when it become GE voting time?

    I can’t remember the last time I voted (I know that makes me bad as every vote counts etc) so I’m not Labour or Tory, more a fence sitter. I guess I’m seeing things from outside looking in, as opposed to Labour supporters who are viewing things from inside looking out.

    My initial response was to the question of who is the liar, Boris or Kier. My point was Boris said he’d get Brexit done and was true to his word. To a lot of the electorate who don’t give a shiny shiite about politics and only see the headlines, this is what they will remember at voting time ( so on this thing he’s not a liar), they won’t remember his affair with Acuri, or where he got sacked from, or how many contracts his mates have got, or who paid for his flat decoration.
     

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