Sorry for the windass element - just got in from work so had no time to comment so far. Gerard Krasner, former leeds chairman who sold out to Bates, was interviewed on 5 Live around 7.30, and interestingly, is an insolvency practitioner in his professional life, so knows a few things about the process. He was amazed that the administrators, KPMG, were suggesting that they had accepted an offer from Bates new company before close of play today, as the role of the administrator is to get best value for the creditors, and they were only appointed at 3.30, so how the hell can they have had the time to discuss alternative offers in 2 hours. He reckoned that, to his personal knowledge, there are at least 7 consortia or other other interested parties wanting to invest in Leeds who have been waiting for admin for the opportunity to do so without having to deal with Bates directly. In many of these cases, it is feasible that the offer would include a larger percentage of debt payment to the creditors. He suggested that, if they wanted to follow it up, they should arrive at the door of KPMG on Tuesday morning with a chequebook - KPMG would be obliged to consider the offer. If such offers seemed to offer better value for the creditors and KPMG did not take them up, the creditors could reject the offer in a creditors vote that needs to happen (one of the votes required has to exclude those creditors with an interest in the company). And the biggest creditor, other than any dodgy loan vehicle companies linked to the club is the Inland Revenue, who are owed 6 million pounds worth of taxpayers money. If that did not work, such creditors could then even put in a legal challenge to the administrators acceptance of the Bates offer. So, shitty and sly and underhand as it all seems at the moment, it could all go tits up for Bates yet - I certainly hope so cos I despise the way that they can appear to so easily make plans to write off so much money, even by-passing the 10 point rule along the way, and in the process affect so many local businesses who will miss the money badly, as well as the taxpayer, one of which is me. And the league's rule over the 10 point penalty must now be revised in the light of today - what the hell is a 1 March deadline referred to in the rulebook for if it has no effect.
sounds abart reight I am bemused as to how the administrator has accepted and offer from the existing owner when they have made no effort to test its competetiveness especially when the adminstrators job is to seek the best deal for the creditors.
What really gets me as well Is that I am certain that, legally, you HAVE to go into administration as soon as it becomes apparent that you cannot service your commitments. Now, Leeds are apparently 30m in debt, ok, but being a large chunk in debt is not the same thing as being able to service your outstanding debts - look at Sheff Wednesday, who have been carting a 20m + debt around for a good few years. And as for being able to service your debts, Leeds annual funds will increase quite drastically this summer as this is the point they stop paying silly wages to players who left years ago, surely that more than makes up for the expected drop in attendances and revenue that comes from being relegated. So, if they are saying now that they cannot service their remaining debts, that must have been the case for some time, so why is it such a coincidence that they do it on the last working day before the end of the season. And, have they effectively been trading illegally for some time? To me, Bates is taking the piss out of the whole football community, as well as the clubs creditors. The whole thing stinks. But then, that is why I earn a regular salary for busting my ass and the likes of Bates live the life of millionaires.
So was I right?</p> http://www.barnsleyfc.org.uk/bbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=71912&mid=451474 </p> Doesn't happen often. </p>
RE: What really gets me as well DSL RED - This goes a lot further than football and is vey much a legal matter. Your points hit the mark precisely- hats off to you for your valid points. My guess is Bates will now'own' Leeds under the guise of his new company at a fraction of the cost he invested................and then sell to another consortium at a massive profit..Shades of Chelsea Village? I still maintain however we should all concentrate on celebrating the fact that we - not them - stayed in the Championship. Maybe - if only in the short term-we showed that integrity and decency can beat cynicism and cheating. Come on Tarn!
RE: What really gets me as well Exactly. If he is the major creditor, (8million apparently) via a loan company that he has a major stake in, then he loses the majority of that, but compensates for it by selling a debt free club for an awful lot more. In the meantime, many genuine individuals and business lose a lot of money that they themselves cannot afford to lose - effectively money that Bates has stolen from them. And all this is legal??!!? (kissmyass) Rest assured, I'm still dining out on Leeds demise, but it tastes a little sour now.
RE: What really gets me as well .......one other thought - and just before we get on our moral high horse- the activities of a certain Peter Doyle remind me very much of all this ie 'buy' the club, remortgage it's assets to provide the funding, sell the club, make a profit, no risk investment. That man should have been driven out of tarn.......bring on his bully boy security outfit anyday, I couldn't give a........................sh$$.......... just woke up an found an horses head next to my pillow...............!! (RIP)
There is another factor in all this which nobody seems to have mentioned. Putting aside any dislike of Leeds AFC, Ken Bates or Leeds fans in general - I'm a little surprised that Gerald Krasner didn't mention a very mute point in today's events. Leeds AFC are the subject of a Compulsory Winding up meeting instigated by HMRC (Inland Revenue) for late June - 25th I think - and this fact has effectively driven what KPMG have done today. As others have mentioned their role is to get the best offer to keep the company running, and in Administration terms (as well we know at BFC) there is insufficient time to issue notification to potential bidders to submit their properly formulated bids, and complete the whole process before the winding up meeting. Remember those bidders have to undergo due diligence, examine the club's financial books and so on, and this all takes time. In this instance Bates has a big advantage over other potential bidders and has therefore stolen a march on them. KPMG have indicated the above rationale is the reasoning behind them accepting the Bates offer today. Clearly this all hasn't happened over the past 24 hours - discussions will have been taking place between Bates and KPMG over the past week at least. What Bates has done is not in any way illegal in administration, it has happened in other business scenarios. It's called a 'pre-packaged phoenix' - whereby the administrators have to consider whether they can get a better offer than the 'pre-pack' deal on the table - taking into account timescales, in this case the winding up meeting. KPMG obviously considered Bates's offer to be the best deal in this situation - other bidders would probably disagree and it's now up to them to persuade KPMG otherwise. Remember it's questionnable whether Robson Rhodes accepted the best offer to take BFC out of administration. Much as we may all dislike what has occurred, Bates has used the systems - both football (10 deduction) and financial - to his advantage. It is questionnable how moral his actions are but they aren't contravening any rules or regulations. He's a manipulator, always has been, and that's precisely what he's done here. Besides he's the club's biggest creditor (in the shape of Fortress Sports Fund) with HMRC being the second biggest. If he's come to an arrangement with them it's almost certain the ultimate CVA will be approved. Personally, I'm in the camp with those who say 'what does it matter what happens at Elland Road - they are in Division One next season, and we are in the Championship. YES!!!!'
Exactly mate agree with everything you say there. Bates has worked all the systems to his advantage, which is why he is where he is. From a football point of view, I couldn't care less, we are championship and lets concentrate on moving forward..
RE: There is another factor in all this which nobody seems to have mentioned. Excellent points my friend. The problem is that what they have done is indeed legal - yet morally at gutter level....but then when have morals and legality sat comfortably with each other? My hope is that this unites the football world- and in particular DIVISION 3 - against this arrogant non entity that resides in LS- whatever the rest of their postcode is -and the likes of HARTLEPOOL, CREWE, WALSALL ETC - go out to ensure they do not come straight back up at least for the next few years. I actually live in Leeds and whilst it's a superb City recreationally - it's football supporters are the absolute pits. COME ON TARN!
I agree 100%..... I also live in Leeds, Beeston to be exact and the thought of driving past Elland Road next season on my way to Oakwell with my Tarn flags flying proudly gives me a very warm feeling inside. Neanderthal man is alive and well in Leeds. (and thats not just me. ) (england)
