OT An observation as we start a new decade....

And note this is NOT a dig at Corbyn even though the quoted headline and BBC article is about him...

"Jeremy Corbyn urges Labour to lead 'resistance' to Conservatives in 2020"

For me, this represents everything that is wrong with 2 party politics. Whichever party comes to power, it seems the first thing they pledge is to undo everything and reverse everything the previous party did in their term in office whilst the oppostion try to block everything. It is as if no one ever sits down and says, actually this minister or that minister did that and it is a pretty good idea so we will leave it as is. It is seen as a sign of weakness.
No one has exclusive ownership of good ideas but UK politics has become more and more divisive and this latest statement is just a long line of similar ones over the past few decades where, instead of trying to heal rifts and division it will simply widen the divide between left and right.
It is pre-emptive and illogical anyway as Labour accused the Conservative of stealing much of their manifesto anyway during the election so the conclusion is , if Johnson does actually follow through and try to deliver what he promised, Labour would, in effect, be resisting their own policies.

A credible opposition has to be just that. i.e. credible.

 

True. He whipped his MP's to oppose Johnson's withdrawal bill on Parliament's return, despite having just lost the election on supposedly exactly that point. It's like putting two fingers up to the electorate - not very grown up and unlikely to increase your party's popularity.

 

The sad thing is, it’s not a 2 party system, far from it,,,,,it’s a multi party system, but only 1 of 2 parties can win. Democracy? Don’t make me laugh.

 

They can all win if they field enough candidates and gain enough public support. The lib Dems were in power as a coalition government just a few years ago.

 

I respect your opinion but the tories won that election but without enough seats to function,
T May paid the DUP a billion pounds of tax payers money to buy their votes , because her government couldn’t function.
There’s no evidence to support the theory that any party can win, none.
I say again, democracy? Don’t me laugh

 

But is it the fault of the system that for example the Brexit party chose to only field 275 candidates when they knew they needed 326 seats to win the election? They had huge financial backing but chose to put themselves in an unwinnable position.

Likewise is it the fault of our political system that the Christian party chose to field just two candidates?

At the end of the day any party can if they choose, field enough candidates. Only four parties chose to do so.

 

Yup, as democratic as the US system.....

 

275 candidates, god knows how many votes (I don’t know how many) ZERO seats. You’d have thought they’d have won 1 or 2 seats when they fielded candidates in almost half the constituencies wouldn’t you when the tories got 300+

 

The top and bottom of is though is that there isn't a perfect system, each method has it's strengths and weaknesses.

 

Whilst it looks like you’re complaining about the system (which is flawed - but there’s no appetite for change), or a dig at Corbyn built on a complete misunderstanding of his role (simple tribalism or something more serious).

more than half the electorate didn’t vote conservative at the election. The only job of the leader of her majesty’s opposition is to try to represent the electorate by holding the government in check. You appear to be complaining that he is literally doing his job.

we could agree he’ll do a pathetically bad job of it as he can be little more than an inconvenience to a PM who has a solid majority, despite having won over only about 40% of the electorate.

I do worry sometimes at the ignorance of some posters here, people who react instead of thinking, who refuse to understand how our government works. Sadly I say refuse because no matter how many times the facts are pointed out, they’ll repeat the same flawed opinions days later.

 

Thing is, we had a referendum less than 9 years ago, to change the FPTP system and 68% voted to keep it.

 

I think a large factor in this was that the alternative offered was so convoluted that nobody was really convinced by it. Had a proper proportional system been on the table we may have seen something quite different. Cameron properly pulled Clegg's pants down on the electoral reform issue.

 

I'm not sure it would have made much difference tbh....I think a lot of people would have taken some convincing that losing a Constituency MP based system would be a step forward.

 

Johnson’s deal is a rotten deal ! He didn’t rally to oppose Brexit he rallied to oppose Johnson’s Brexit which is a different thing altogether .
If MPs from all persuasions believe something in their opinion is bad for the country it’s their duty to oppose or question it not line up like sheep .

 

To be fair though Marlon....he was shoved into it by Starmer, Thornberry and Watson who intended to oppose any deal negotiated. It's a moot point now but staying with the 2017 position might have retained a lot of their Leave support and made the agenda more about other issues....had he won the election he would have been in the driving seat to set the future relationship, which was always more important than the withdrawal agreement.
I think they lost sight of the real goal.

 

Not sure about the Starmer bit tbh as his constituents say will have had an input .
But putting aside the election result the country is still split . The majority of MPs means they can push their agenda but it doesn’t mean they are carrying the people with them .
Most people will go along with Brexit but Boris deal leaves out workers rights among other things and it’s the oppositions duty to oppose any deal that’s bad for the country .
Brexit should have been a cross party alliance all party’s are guilty that it isn’t but more so the Tories .
Whether he agrees with Brexit or not is bye the bye imo it’s the job of the opposition to oppose any deal they deem bad for the country .
The last time a party followed the oppositions line were the Tories and we ended with an unjust unending war .

 

And how does Corbyn's stance advance Labour's cause?

 

because it’s a just cause .
They will be held to account when the nation realise what a con a Johnson’s govt is .
No Labour Party worth it’s salt will stand by watch workers rights being eroded nor should it .

 

And he had a compromise from May on the table which safeguarded EU-level workers' rights (and would have kept a weaker opponent in No 10 for him to take on)?

Ideology will cost Labour a long, long time in the wilderness.

 

I remember similar being said when Thatcher came to power in 1979. It took while 1997.