Pondering the state of the NHS - much as I love it

Not good. Hope you get out of there soon!

 

Worth pointing out only medical side is stagnating the non medical side hasn’t on wages.

 

Evidence?
I’m fairly certain the entire public sector has suffered wage stagnation for the last 30 years, I’d personally be gobsmacked that if that’s applied to everyone from school dinnerladies to barristers, they managed to miss out non clinical hospital workers.

 

Well my info comes from my mate who is an Accountant for one of the Lincolnshire trusts, so I would imagine his info is far more accurate than any news outlets.

 

Pretty sure anyone on an NHS Agenda for Change banded salary won’t have seen their pay packet rise in line with inflation over the last 10 years (I know mine hasn’t!). And that’ll include pretty much the whole nursing staff and most of what would be considered management. Chief execs, COOs and the like is a different pay scale admittedly and I’ve got no idea what their pay rises have been like but they account for a tiny proportion of the workforce. Medical and dental is another pay scale and again, not sure what their pay increases have been, but for the amount of training, hours and responsibility, the money you earn as a Dr isn’t actually that great until you make consultant.

 

Well I’ll simplify.
All public sector roles are subject to 2 things:
1 a very rigid pay structure
2 pay settlements that are driven directly by the government

I do appreciate trusts have some flexibility compared to most of the public sector, but AFAIK like the civil service that only usually applies right at the top (rules don’t apply to the elite).

Just checked NHS vacancies in Lincolnshire, all the non clinical roles are advertised with a ‘pay band’ and whilst the numbers differ, anyone working in the civil service or local authority would recognise those ‘grades’, by similar responsibilities and pay scales.

 

Ok I’ll bite

This is pseudo intellectual büllshit, a sentence that might look like it means something if you’re completely fücking ignorant of how things actually work.

As a public servant, the person who might have to look at my salary in detail isn’t an accountant (G7 or above), they’re a payroll clerk (EO).

The accountants I meet at work are Finance Business Partners; they have no more knowledge of pay structures than I do.
And the punchline to that is; that means they know almost everything about them, because they’re completely transparent and in the public domain. (so to assume ‘an accountant’ would have specialist knowledge is ludicrous).

And to outline the transparency, a G7 starts at about £50k and there’d be a ‘specialist’ premium for an accountant, an EO salary is around £30k

And again, it takes no effort at all to look at job adverts to verify everything I wrote here.

 

Yawn, your the ******* expert who can never be wrong.
There you go I’ve ******* bit as well you ******* areshole

 

I was referring to the top end of things like CEO etc, they have to compete with other non govt businesses and other trusts.
Edit: I wasn’t trying to suggest any of the medical pays are acceptable or reflective of what they should be, in fact the opposite, I was trying to amplify the point you were making by highlighting some roles weren’t affected like others are.

 

Well I appreciate the validity of your point, well argued with absolute clarity.

BTW, if you’d have said ‘CEO’s’. rather than ‘non clinical staff, I’d have given a very different argument.

It’s not my fault if you want to use a very road brush to make a very specific point.

But while you’re here; let’s do the social experiment.
Why do Trust CEOs exist? What’s the point of them?

 

Not interested in debating with you.
You come across as a first class ***** who believes he is above everyone else they post with.
It’s across all your posts on most subjects.
You could have made your points like the other poster without the abuse but no the condescending ******** that you are doesn’t allow it. You had to include phrases like ‘completely ******* ignorant’ & ‘ludricous’.

 

Nowt personal in my posts, I was completely factual, whereas your response to me?

 

So you claim……
Mine is very personal, I make no bones about it, perhaps you should ask your self why have I responded to you in the manner I have and only you(ever)?
Of course you won’t though as you are far too superior to even consider it.

In fact apart from the fact you have to have the last word to prove your superiority over everyone else on the board I’m surprised you even deign yourself to respond to someone as pseudo intellectual as myself.

 

It’s not my fault you tried to make a point about CEOs by writing ‘non medical side has not stagnated’.
When it’s obvious to anyone with a rudimentary understanding of web searching that’s not true.

And you’re following it up by feigning upset rather than face the reality of the tiny number of highly paid NHS staff who only exist because some arsèhole 40 years ago thought that ‘markets’ and competition were the only way to drive innovation. Which is clearly bollöx, all it’s done is create waste.

 

It's interesting that you started off in this thread claiming that the appalling state of the NHS was down to underfunding and you've ended it talking about the systemic waste.

FWIW I think there's a good element of both.

 

Massive leap there: everything I’ve written is about the huge underpayment of most staff and underfunding.
Whilst acknowledging (cos I’m not a fücking idiot) that the marketisation of the NHS like the whole public sector creates waste and adds no value.
In 2008 when we had a world beating health service, it was still remarkably cheap (despite the trust nonsense), but removing money from it without removing those layers of bureaucracy was never going to provide the answer.

 

I feel like a broken record on this, but in the late 80’s I was a mechanic working for the council.
The council were instructed to put most of their services ‘out to tender’.
This led to the council creating an entire layer of business dedicated to outsourcing services.
And subsequently a whole other team, trying to win contracts within the council to run in-house contracts.

Prior to this, the council already had a team of people whose job it was to ensure services were run efficiently and to reassure the council we were doing our best for every £ they spent.

So instead of believing the people who’s job it was to prove VFM we now have to let the market decide.

I’m happy to bet the old way gave greater VFM (even though it was more difficult to prove)

 

Once again your arrogance shines through, you just can’t help yourself.

I’ve made it really clear it was not what you put but how you put it.
I tried to highlight to you the difference in your posting style to the other poster (and my response) but of course you can’t see it.

 

I hadn't intended a thread so divisive.

What's obvious being sat here in a bed though:

Is that there seems to be nobody about at the weekend
Is that I've had a different nurses and healthcare assistants for each shift over 3 days
Is that each time they're starting from scratch in understanding why a patient is there -
and that they do that by conversation with colleagues and patients and not by looking at the computers that their outgoing colleague spent so much time putting info into
Is that there seem to be a lot of patients of eastern euro origin receiving treatment for alcohol related illnesses

 

And once again you ignore the actual issues and complete nonsense you originally posted to have a go at me personally