Really don't understand this view that it's been a 'different England'

...from previous tournaments.

Now I will start this making it absoultely clear that I thought England did as well as can be expected, and they got to the point their ability deserved and should be credited as such.

BUT the only thing that I can see is different from any of the previous tournaments is that the media have chosen to be realistic and portray the team and the players in a positive light. I accept the players have looked happy off the pitch but I don't really see what has been any different on it.

They have got through the group without playing particularly well and lost at the first knockout stage to a better team. They have failed to retain the ball and control games against teams that are worse than them (as in World Cup 2010), and sat off France with the aim of defending a lead or a draw (as in Euro 2004). Once again we have depended on a player who has either been injured or unavailable in the lead up to the tournament and they have again failed to make an impact as they are inevitably under-prepared.

I thought England were defensively very well organised under Hodgson, were obviously united as a squad, and conducted themselves very well. But I can't really see what is so different to previous tournaments. For me we were exactly the same and reached the point we deserved to. The only difference I can see is the way the media chose to spin it. Hopefully this meida positivity won't change!

 

Disagree completely

we took a completely different approach, to contain the opposition as opposed to try and out play them. In previous tournaments we've tried to take the Premiership style of play into the games and got found out, Hodgson has openly admitted that's not the plan, realised that the grueling Prem season has meant players cant bomb up and down the pitch and maybe seeing Chelsea beat Barca and Bayern the fans are more accepting towards the tactics. There are a lot of subtle changes, singing the anthem, more inclusive towards the fans, the body language of the players is completely different this time, for me is totally different to the previous World Cup in South Africa and in Germany where we didnt do ourselves justice at all.

 

Re: Disagree completely

I don't think we ever tried to play Premiership style football under Capello. It was his determination that you need to retain the ball in international football that broke him when we were incapable of doing so. We have been a Hodgson team in this tournament, well structured and organised. But we've ended up at the exact same point as we have in the last four tournaments for which we qualified, so I don't really see what the difference is other than how the media have portrayed it. If we had done this under Capello he would have been criticised. The murky world of the press.

Admittedly they all sang the national anthem, but I'd have refused to do that anyway on principle.

 

Re: Disagree completely

Singing the national anthem doesn't help you pass a ball accurately.

 

The point I was making

was that Hodgson seems to have restored some pride in playing for England, not so long ago Rooney was swearing at the camera after being booed off. The criticism previous has been that the players arent as motivated to play for their country as their club, and I think Hodgson has rightly tried to address that.

 

Re: The point I was making

But again isn't that just a media construct? Didn't Rooney (albeit wrongly) swear at the camera because he cared? I do agree that he has created a united squad this time though but its far easy to do that when you haven't got the press constantly on your back

 

In tournaments, Capello was a disaster

only Emile Heskey and Shaun Wright Phillips would disagree. Classic case of a club manager that couldn't adapt to International football. His tactics didnt change for the tournament and quiet clearly they need to. The main difference for me is a realisation that qualifying for the tournament is one thing, but how you set up to play in the tournament is completely different.

Not singing the National anthem 'on principle' is just petty btw.

 

Re: The point I was making

The point i'm making is you can make as many cosmetic changes to presentation and communication and to the media as you like. If you can't do the simple things like pass and receive a ball effectively, in the modern game you're going to get run ragged against a half decent opponent.

 

Capello's attitude to the media

caused the problem, he wanted the players isolated from the fans and the media, Hodgsons more inclusive approach has helped massively. Remember the media we out to get him from day one, he's won them over by getting the best out of the squad available to him. By changing the tactics.

 

Re: In tournaments, Capello was a disaster

But the point is we didn't do any better than we have at previous tournaments! It is just being portrayed so by the media.

I don't think we should have a monarchy so I'm not sure why sticking to your principles is petty

 

Topped the group on 7 points

beat our nemesis, Sweden and the host nation Ukraine, not to mention the fact that we were written off by pretty much everyone, I'd say we did not just better than expected but better than the previous 4 or 5 attempts. Certainly better than the 4-2 humiliation by Germany.

We've gone out at the same stage but unbeaten and with a great deal of credit from the above.

 

Re: Topped the group on 7 points

And therein lies the answer

 

Re: Topped the group on 7 points

We're ****...end of thread

 

Re: Topped the group on 7 points

The low-key build up and pessimistic/realistic perceptions of our team's likely chances probably helped, but I did feel a sense of unity that had previously not been present. I don't think the unity was a media construct, but a more tangible enitity visible within the team and squad set up. It looked a happier camp, the players appeared to put in just as much effort as they do at club level and unlike in 2010 and 2006, I felt the team were really playing for their country and proud to do so. So I don't think this England is much different in terms of pure football, apart form being more tactically astute, but in general, I detected a much better team spirit. If this can be combined with a considerable higher level of quality on the ball, we may be able to get beyond quarter-finals.

 

Togetherness and team spirit is more important

than technical ability at a tournament, imho. Arguably the best 'technical' team at the tournament - Holland. Played 3 lost 3.

 

Re: Togetherness and team spirit is more important

A team with technical ability and no unity won't win and a team with unity and no technical ability won't win. Spain are by far the best team and have won the last two major tournaments.

I don't, however, subscribe to the fact we don't have technically gifted players. We don't have a culture of ball retention, hence why Barnsley fans shout like morons when we play a square ball and Capello was fighting a losing battle trying to instill that when we don't do it at club level.

Tactically I thought we got it wrong last night. Either Rooney or Wellbeck should have been dropped, Milner played in the middle and Walcott out wide, and Gerrard played further forward. Three in the middle would have reduced the space Italy had when in possession and allowed us to retain the ball better.

 

What we do have

is pace, and if we are to compete and beat teams like Spain, who have a culture and decades of emphasis on keeping the ball, maybe we should be playing on the counter with players like Walcott, Ox, Lennon etc.

We looked at our most dangerous when Walcott and Ox were on, Hodgson would probably have gone with both had Parker not been out on his feet. My only criticism of last night, and its in hindsight, is we opted for Carroll as an outlet not going with pace to play on the break.

 

Re: What we do have

I think what was probably different, is that we achieved the same end result,ie defeat on penalties in the quarter final,with a far less talented squad than we've fielded for quite a few years.

 

Re: What we do have

Add to that we were against a far less talented team in Italy than they have had in 20 years!