Same arguments raise their heads again

Fact is England played to their capabilities this tournament - they got further than I thought.

English players are not as technically capable as the Spanish, German, Italians Portugese etc. We may be more 'passionate' and have some 'lionhearts' defensively. I think Terry and Johnson have been superb this tournament.

But higher up the pitch we fall short - Parker, Gerrard (as good as he has been) and the rest look limited against the Europeans - the scary thing is just look how head and shoulders they are above other domestic players who don't get in the England set up. It just shows the shortfall in the English game.

But we only have ourselves to blame - look how we as a nation urge our players to 'get it forward' from the first time a young lad can kick a ball. At Oakwell you can hear the grumbles when a pass goes square or back when there isn't a forward option - we'd rather launch it than keep possession. We don't allow youngsters to learn - we play hell up when our Academy doesn't win games, ignoring the fact that they are learning. The media won't allow an English manager to experiment with young/untried players because if we lose to a 'lesser' side then The Sun goes into meltdown along with the TV experts.

The Premiership has skewed football so much in this country that foreign players looking for a last payday come here and greedy chairmen sign them up or pressure the manager to do it in the pursuit of short term financial game whilst their Academy lads end up down the leagues.

We've got what we deserve and we aren't bright or brave enough to accept that for the next 2/3 tournaments we go back and start again, play young players and allow them to make mistakes and tackle the Premiership excesses that stop technical English players being given the time to develop.

No, sign some 'cheap' foreigners, get it forward and carry on regardless. Nothing will change.

 

Eloquently put

couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Re: Eloquently put

thats because your intellectually challenged

 

Great post. The lessons are there to be learned but they have been for some time which suggests that nothing will change. Yet another failure of the premier league - the promise that its formation would help the england team -which sadly and predictably turned out to be yet another thinly veiled lie.

 

Spot on

And with the premier league signing domestic TV rights for £3bn over 3 years thats around 40% more money to go on wages and marquee signings from overseas that block the route of english born players.

 

We couldve won last night

we're not a million miles away, Im not saying all is rosey but a decent manager makes a big difference, qualification is one thing but its the tournament that counts, maybe Hodgson has the right mindset, dont get beaten. Preparation for a tournament needs to be looked at, there was a lot of tired legs towards the end, the FA as a whole needs a complete overhaul, which wont happen, but there are some good young players coming through, some technically able (e.g. Wiltshire).

Glass half full.

 

Re: We couldve won last night

Wilshere should be the one we build our team around.

But I agree with all that. Never been bothered about England but proud of 'em this tournament. Johnson scores that, different game.

I expect Parker, Terry, Gerrard etc not to be at the World Cup 2014.

Wilshere, Walcott, Welbeck, Rooney etc are something to be positive about.

 

I agree with you.

However, we have fallen into a trap here that retaining possesion at all costs is all that matters. Quite often, what is actually missing from the English game is movement. Square balls are great in the Prozone but in real life tend to play someonelse into trouble.

 

Re: We couldve won last night

Our defence was good for just about all the tournament and we were unbeaten. The foundations are there, we just need to replace Cole and Terry (too old for 2014) in defence and then start again with the midfield and attack. As much as he is lauded by the media, Rooney just doesn't cut it at international level and has not played well for England in a tournament for 8 years now. Should he really get another chance?

 

Defended very well but looked weak in attack. Given the limitations of the available squad I think a total long ball setup would suit them, give the ball some 'air time'. We don't do 2D footy very well. I don't think we lumped the ball up enough, especially to Carroll.

 

Well said, mate

Patience and tolerance are sadly lacking in today's game, though. Players (whether they're young lads, or incoming transfers) & managers have to have an immediate impact, otherwise they're regarded as failures.

 

Re: We couldve won last night

Of course he should. Gerrard and Lampard have had longer and neither have done owt, except Gerrard this time when Frank was left at home due to injury.

 

Doesn't have to be one or the other though - it's not either direct or possession. The fact is our world class forward offered next to **** all imho and if Welbeck's the answer then I'm scared of the question.

In the first half last night Gerrard took possession on our 18 yard line, exchanged passes with Parker, broke into their half and there wasn't an England player ahead of the ball.

 

Re: We couldve won last night

Gerrard will be there. We also fall in to the trap of retiring players too early from England. Pirlo last night being a prime example of why you shouldn't. Fair enough if someone else is better but I though Gerrard was excellent this tournament. But if you (tactically) allow a team the amount of possession we did Italy second half then no midfielder is going to llok good.

 

Re: We couldve won last night

Indeed we could in the first half - but from the 2nd half onwards we were containing Italy for the most part. Had they had their shooting boots on it'd have been over at full time.

I'm not blaming Hodgson one bit - he has to go with what's available and try and work it. imho what's available isn't good enough on the world stage.

 

Allow possession and park the team bus

erm, a bit like Chelsea in the Nou Camp?

 

Re: We couldve won last night

Different type of player. If Scholes was available, I'd have had him there and first on the team sheet. Only player comparable to the passing of Pirlo, Xavi etc.

Gerrard has been good but doing a job his game isn't suited to. He's an attacking midfielder, setting up goals and scoring them himself. This sitting in front of the back four doesn't suit him. It does suit Parker & Wilshere.

 

If we'd won 1-0

we wouldnt be talking about possession. We'd be talking about how organisation and determination beats tippy tappy football. Am I the only one yawning through Spains games?

 

Re: If we'd won 1-0

Spain can do what we can't - kill a game but still score. They are a cure for insomnia. If that's the route we're going down we need the players to do it. What we can't do at the moment is adapt to different teams.

Hodgson might sort it and it'll all be okay but I doubt it.

 

Re: If we'd won 1-0

I'd rather watch Spain (despite them having forgotten the point of the game) than England with 2 banks of 4 and a hopeful front to back 60 yard pass every 5 minutes when we finally get the ball.

I didn't enjoy one game this tournament and I can't actually remember the last england tournament performance that had a great deal of positive to speak of. 4-2 v Croatia maybe?

With the money and resource that the FA, PFA and Premier League have, we should at least have a team capable of passing a ball.

I genuinely think we were in the worst 4 teams in the tournament. Italy and Germany are organised (and cynical) but they are able to pass the ball and move the ball. We aren't. Route one football will fail on the international stage because you just don't get enough of the ball and you expend all your energy chasing.

We don't have to have 70% possession to win and compete, but we need a damn sight more than 30%.