Sheffield Wednesday..........AND............Patrick Cryne

A few observations following on from Whiteys Q&A with Patrick Cryne:

Barnsley District has about 230,000 people living in it.
Not 90,000 as proclaimed in Whiteys Q&A.
When abroad, and someone asks you where you come from, do you say Barnsley? - even when you live on the outskirts of the town like Hemingfield (where Patricks from).
Of course most people do.


We are also surrounded on ALL SIDES by other huge conurbations - Doncaster, Rotherham, Sheffield, Huddersfield, Wakefield.
Towns like Donny has about 300,000 people and towns like Huddersfield having about 420,000 people.
Many of the people living on the edges of these towns look at Barnsley as their local town e.g. Wath, Brampton, Mexborough, South Elmsall, Hemsworth, Denby Dale, Thorpe Hesley, Socksbridge etc etc etc


Consequently - the influence of Barnsley Football Club covers a massive population and as a result of this the club has the potential to attract huge crowds.
So for Patrick to be satisfied with just 9000 fans (as mentioned in Whiteys Q&A) is a total misunderstanding of the town and its locality within such a densely populated area.
The principle reason for relatively low crowds at Barnsley is a direct consequence of Barnsley not having a period of prolonged football success compared to our main competitors for football supporters i.e. Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield United, Leeds United.
Please don't consider that the reason these clubs get large attendances is because they are clubs from major cities - that is not the case - there are many clubs within large cities that do not get large attendances e.g. Notts County and Walsall.
In the vast majority of cases; Attendance = History of Football Success.


As a club we cannot be successful unless we get larger attendances, OR, the owner of the club 'primes the pump' to create that success.
In Whiteys Q&A - Patrick says he has been otherwise engaged during 10 years of the 12 years he has been owner of the club.
In those 10 years our main competitors (Sheffield/Leeds) for supporters can only be described as floundering - they have been both pathetic on and off the field.
Clearly a great opportunity existed during that time to establish Barnsley as a well established and supported club.


It is increasingly looking like that opportunity has now been lost !!! Sheffield Wednesday look destined to become a giant force again in local football.
As most people realise - and Whitey mentioned this - it only takes a father to take his son or daughter to their first football match for that child to become a fan for life. Those children eventually then pass on their love for the club to their own children and grandchildren.
With regard to Sheffield Wednesday, this is what has actually happened in large swathes of the Barnsley District from Hoyland through Wombwell to Goldthorpe and Thurnscoe.


If Sheffield Wednesday do reach the Premiership then I urge Patrick to counter this threat to the future fan base of Barnsley Football Club.
I'm sure there are people employed at Barnsley that are more knowledgeable about this type of thing than I am - but one form of action could be this ........if Wednesday are at home and playing a top Premiership club on the same day that Barnsley are at home then Barnsley should allow all youngsters under 12 to be admitted to the ground for just £1.

An effort has to be made to secure the future fan base at Barnsley if Sheffield Wednesday reach the Premiership.

 

Being from Bolton on Dearne, I can say that football loyalty in the Dearne area (Thurnscoe, Goldthorpe, Bolton and Wath) has always been split, even within families, my sister for example has always leaned towards the Fowls. I went to Wath Grammar School (late 60s and early 70s) and I would have counted supporters of Rotherham, Donny, The Blunts and Fowls among my mates. It was just the way it was and didn't really have much to do with the success of the teams; Barnsley, Rotherham and Donny were in the lower divisions while the Sheffield lot were generally First or Second Division.

 

I'm on the outskirts but always say I'm from Wakey. I presume you're paying the shortfall if we're gonna start letting kids in for £1.

 

You've unwittingly let down your own argument by talking about Walsall. Walsall is not in a large city - despite being economically entwined with Birmingham and Wolverhampton it's a borough of 254,000 people within the West Midlands conurbation. As such, it's quite similar to Barnsley (although admittedly a more integral part of the urban fabric). Where we have Sheffield United and Sheffield Wednesday on our borders, Walsall has West Brom and Wolves. I suppose that Birmingham City and Villa will do as a comparator for Leeds.

However, Walsall has no team comparable to Doncaster or Rotherham. So Walsall and Barnsley are both from smallish towns within much larger boroughs, surrounded on all sides by teams with more history and bigger local fanbases than us - Barnsley suffers from having far more smaller teams within its catchment area. And yet, if you compare our attendances, it looks to me like Barnsley are actually doing pretty well. Very well, I'd say, considering Barnsley MBC is a lot more rural than Walsall MBC.

I'd love to see a proper analysis of your 'attendance = football success' statement. I'm not denying that they're probably correlated, but it would make a lot more sense for the causation to be going the other way.

 

When I was at school in Wakefield in the early 50s, support was approximately 60% Huddersfield Town, 25% Barnsley and 15% Leeds. No kid supported a Manchester United or a Chelsea.

 

Many of the people living on the edges of these towns look at Barnsley as their local town e.g. Wath, Brampton, Mexborough, South Elmsall, Hemsworth, Denby Dale, Thorpe Hesley, Socksbridge etc

Your last three are a load of ballax mate. No way do the people who live there regard Barnsley as their local town.
There'll be less than a handful born in those areas that support BFC

Also you can't start comparing districts that were invented by the government less than 50 years ago with actual traditional towns and their populations.
Every bloody town in the country has other smaller towns not so far away.
Burnley (roughly the same size as Barnsley) is always quoted as the guiding light re attendance/population but even they have Nelson/Colne/****heroe and Accrington on their doorsteps.
You're right about the potential to steal fans in those non-Barnsley areas but to pull those in we'd have to be in the Premier League for a number of seasons which is very unlikely given our history - an Abromovic would be the only way to do that.
A lot of locals in the areas you quote have parents who supported Wednesday, United, Leeds, Man U etc purely because they've traditionally been in the highest division or at least higher than us. Even Wombwell, Hoyland and Birdwell have their fair share of Wednesday and Unitedites.
We pulled some extra fans in when we were in the Premier League (I even know a Barnsley based Leeds fan who got a season ticket for that one season) but to sustain that we'd need to be there for a generation. It ain't going to happen mate.

 

Think that's a good post Nudger

 

Our support could be better, also could be worse.

The only way that we'll garner more support is through success or cheaper tickets, with the former much more likely to bump up crowds as people will pay whatever they need to if we're doing well.

 

Im from Bolton also, Nearly all my mates growing up in the 80's supported Wednesday, i often wonder why, bar the odd family allegiance really it was mainly due to the fact they played in the top division, and latterly in the late 80's early 90's they won things.

I also know plenty of them came to watch Barnsley in the prem. success brings fans not one off cheap prices

 

In the urban area, he meant. It's not exact science. But it does indicate that we are well supported all being said. If there are 600,000 folk in Sheffield, and the deedar clubs pull 20,000 fans in each, I'd suggest us pulling 10,000 in, with 200,000 folk in the town is commendable. Especially when you look at historical achievements.

Look how many went to Wigan. Look how many were there on Saturday. We've took 3,000 or more to all the local away days this season barring Bradford which was a rearranged night fixture. Look at the gates increasing as we were promoted in 96-97, and the 15,000 gates for two years after that. We took 4,000 to MK Dons a couple of years ago. We take 20,000 or more to cup/semi/playoff finals. So it's clear that success, good teams, winning, goals and all that jazz, that's the key.

Wednesday were getting 17,000 last season at one stage. Dem Blades had 15,000 for a playoff semi the other year.

Leeds average about 18,000 these days. Huddersfield about 11,000.

Reduced ticket prices are the only reason Bradford pull 17,000 in regularly. They've had some cup success recently, as we did a few years ago, that helps of course, but were their tickets £320 per adult or more, they'd have no more than 11,000 in.

It's the North. It's grim, economically. That has to be factored in too. Yorkshire clubs have done bugger all for years.


I accept your point about Wednesday getting promoted, that it will help them convert more supporters. As it would us. Or any club. But it seems your only other point is the one you repeat ad infinitum. That Mr Cryne needs to 'prime the pump'. You love that phrase more than thereev loved 'HTH'.

We've spent very little this season in comparison to some clubs in our division, yet look what we've achieved. If we make Wembley (again) and actually regain our second tier status, I see that as likely to equalise any 'Prem effect' that Wednesday might gain. Not just that. If we're using your logic, surely our own relative success is killing the likes of Donny and dem blades? Maybe youngsters from Manor top will come watch the reds?



You're worrying too much in my opinion.


We're Barnsley FC. We are a small club in most other supporters' eyes. I like that. Because when we are achieving things it makes it a lot more special than Wednesday winning a playoff final to reach a division they should be in, based on them being a huge club. Like it or not, that's what they are. And it's mental how badly mis-managed they must have been to suffer as they have the last two decades. If managed well, they'll be a huge club again. Look at the last club Milan Mandaric flogged to an Asian................

 

With regard to surrounding towns - I know people in Thorpe Hesley etc that support Barnsley.
And for towns such as Stocksbridge, although in the Sheffield District many of them have some connection with Barnsley.
For example, Barnsley Hospital A&E is used by many of their residents.

As for the £1 entrance fee for under 12s - that's a suggestion - I'm sure Ben and the rest of the backroom staff could put something together to deflect the interest away from our nearest rival Wednesday.

Basically what I'm describing here is this..........while Patrick has been either poorly or caught in a court case the club in my opinion has gone from
......... a good Championship / poor Premeirship side..........to a..........good 1st Division / poor Championship side
That's a huge drop at a time when all around us our rivals for support were struggling.

Obviously he couldn't help being in those situations so theres no blame attached to him.
If Wednesday do get promoted, and lets hope they don't, then the task of building Barnsley is likely to be a bit more difficult.

And for all those that watch the Sheffield/Leeds clubs.........if Wednesday get promoted then they will recive about £100 MILLION into the club from TV rights etc plus a similar amount will be spent in the local community.
That's going to result in more jobs for that area of Sheffield including kids just out of school wanting a job.
In effect the people living in Barnsley District that support Wednesday are actually undermining the potential success of their own communities.
Footballs not just about watching football..........its also about supporting your local community.

 

We were in L1 when he took over. We certainly weren't a good Championship or poor Premiership side.

I know a lad from Bradford who supports Barnsley.

 

I don't think we are a small club..........I think we are a club where the potential has never been realised
I do think John Dennis understood this a lot more than what Patrick Cryne does.
JD saw the potential but unfortunately he didn't have enough funds to fulfil the dream.

We are no smaller than Bournemouth, Watford..........Blackburn............or even Burnley

 

Am I missing something here? Barnsley do better than that nudger. Under 12's are entitled to a free season ticket accompanied by an adult of course but they can't offer better than that surely.

I'd prefer to see the OAP concessions done away with and introduce a lower overall season ticket price for all adults to try and attract more of the majority market.

 

No its an excellent policy that.........and one I didn't know about cos I've no under 12s.
But what I'm describing here is an offer of £1 for under 12s on the day.

Scenario..........dad to son/daughter.........'we can go and watch Wednesday play Arsenal........or we can go to watch Barnsley play Coventry, and that's only going to cost me £1 to get you into the ground'.

 

Wath is in Rotherham, Mexborough is Doncaster.

 

Family allegiance to football club doesn't always follow

I worked at Houghton Main pit where there were a considerable number of Wednesday fans. After it closed and sometime in the 90s Pre prem days I recall seeing 3 staunch dyed in the wool Wendsdayites, regularly at Oakwell. Why, Their kids decided they wanted to be Barnsley fans despite them being taken to Hillsbro previously. Theirs schoolmates were largely Barnsley and that's what swung it was the answer I was given.

 

Yeah nobody from Wath says they live in Barnsley. Nobody.Rotherham is clearly the town they live in

Nobody in Mexborough says they live in Barnsley. It's obviously Doncaster with some split on Rotherham depe ding on where about they live and their family ties but none pretend it's Barnsley.

Thorpe hesley? Nope. That's a Rotherham Sheffield split. Considering the main road at Thorpe hesley takes you straight into Rotherham town centre and within about 209 yards of the new York stadium I think it's clear Thorpe hesley isn't Barnsley.

Stocks bridge clearly Sheffield.

The list goes on.

As for villages that associate themselves with Barnsley (town not FC) you've got thurnscoe, goldthorpe and Brampton to the Rotherham side, the rest are all obviously not tarn

 

I'm not knocking what John Dennis achieved Nudge but the financial side off football as moved on so much from his time at the club I honestly believe we'd be in a far worse position if he was still in charge because...and I'm guessing here... he wouldn't have the financial clout to compete with other clubs.