@Shyster motor insurance company .... *!x&*.Does anyone know a good solicitor?...

...my new car (new FIAT PANDA ELEGANZA) was bought in mid May this year from a franchised dealer in Wakefield and I collected it from there with 4 miles on the clock. To tax it they initially registered it in their name for whatever reason. It was located in the docks and was 'factory fresh' as it had some extras I wanted and also the colour was the one my wife picked out. All documents, finance etc refer to it as 'new' and the service book shows pre-delivery service just before I collected it. I believed I had bought a NEW car!

HOWEVER Somebody ran into it last week whilst it was parked and have caused so much damage it is probably a write-off (>50% list price). They also totalled my neighbours car as mine was pushed into it. Anyway my insurers now say they won't give me a new car replacement as per the policy and only the trade value SH as it was "second hand" when I got it as the reg doc shows 1 previous owner (The dealership)
1 Are they not supposed to represent MY interests and not the 3rd party insurers?
2 Should I be left £000's out of pocket due to 'small print'
3 Either my car was 'new' in which case they are supposed to replace my car with a new one (it was only 11 weeks old with 1300 miles on the clock or the dealers have commited 'fraud' by selling me a second hand car on the pretext of it being new -Yes I know! But either legally it was new (dealer and my point of view) or it wasn't (insurers poin of view).
Not even a 'backstreet' insurer... but Frizzell (Liverpool Victoria).

Anyone had this happen to them? I cannot see how the dealers would gain from this as this model is selling well relative to availability so it was not a 'stockpiled' pre registered sold off cheap. (I got a discount for no PX but that was all).

 

that is crap, of course they are goin to be the first registered keeper but that is becuse they sell it. same with my car when bought from renault, log book shows them as 1st registered keeper even though it was brand new. i wrote my first clio off and it didnt effect the insurence. i got £6,500 back as it was 1 year old, it was bought for £8,000.

 

My policy docs say "If this insurance covers the loss or damage and within one year of registration as new in your name your car is damaged so that repairs cost more than 50% of its list price plus taxes when the damage happens we will replace your car with a new car of the same make model and specification..."

thats how they are trying top get out of giving me a new car ..saying that it was not registered as new in my name... Barstewards!!!

 

It seems to me like the dealer has got some dodgy practises going on to me.

When I bought a new Citroen C5 recently the Citroen dealers taxed it using a direct link they have with DVLA. To tax any car ordinarily you need proof of insurance and, I believe, proof of registration (or the tax renewal reminder).

Therefore, they requested my insurance certificate number to complete the tax details, and subsequently needed a fax copy of the insurance for their records. that's it.

Are your dealers suggesting that it is not possible to tax a new car unless it is registered to them? That is ******. Even if they do not have a direct link to DVLA, They should have registered it in your name, then requested your insurance certificate, then popped along to the DVLA office in Sheffield.

What they are doing is effectively selling every car as a second hand car. Not only have you encountered this problem as a result, but if you had not had it written off you would have found that it slightly devalued the car at resale time because you would have had to advertise it as 2 previous owners not 1.

The insurance company have done nothing wrong. The dealers are at fault - they have sold you what is effectively a second hand car under the pretext of it being new.

 

One of the things to check out is whether it was deliberatly registered by the dealer in order to include the car in their monthly bonus figures.

Every car dealership has agreements with the manufacturer that results in them being set sales targets, with bonuses that are payable for meeting and exceeding them. This was explained to me by the Citroen dealer when I bought my car. After doing my research on the internet I knocked the price down to such an extent that he suggested it was slightly less than the dealer could buy them for. When I wasked him why on earth he would accept the deal on this basis he explained the bonus system and suggested that, if this car sale to me was the difference between not meeting the target and meeting it exactly, then the difference to the dealer was a bonus of zero or a bonus of about £150 per car. In other words, with a target of say, 200 cars, if they sold exactly 200 and mine was the 200th, they would lose £120 on my deal 'cos of the price I got, but would gain 200 x £150 = £30,000 as a result of the 200th sale. So they considered it worth the risk to lose a bit of money on the deal.

If your car was a factory ordered car and was sat in a compound before the dealer took delivery, they may have decided to register it as soon at it arrived in this country so as to close the deal in their figures before the month end. They then would have had to sell it on to you as a second hand car. Fine, if they explain this and you accept it, but fraud if they don't.

 

That would make sense if the car was registered at the end of April but I did not want to collect it until mid May. However it was NOT explained to me that it was for their benefit. Anyway it all seems a bit pedantic as the car IS a new vehicle with 4 miles on it and nobody had driven it except on of the delivery transport/short road test etc. My finance documents state it is a new car and the stuff I have received from FIAT refer to me being ownere of a NEW FIAT.

 

also....

the insurance certificate had registration details. How can they register it without insurance details and how can I insure it without registration....catch 22!

 

i work in car insurance

and they are right - your docs state that you must be the 1st owner - you aren't. the garage pulled a fast one by recording themselves as the 1st owner. did you buy it towards end of month? dealers often register cars to themselves so they can tax it quickly (i.e. not wait for your Certificate of Motor Insurance) so they can keep them in that months figures.

you have no leg to stand on bud i'm afraid - the FOS can't help you. the garage did you but you're nacked

 

wrong

i'm the 1st registered owner on my car. the blame lies with garage. see my post further down

 

correct

 

2nd hand

selling it would mean that you were the 2nd registered owner. you've lost out all round bud due to the garage. i don't work for Liv Vic but they are in the right. you are the 2nd registered owner so your car depreciated even more in value than it would have done when you drove it off the forecourt

 

they registered it by covering it under their own insurance

 

Honestly I think you've been unlucky in getting the car written off but otherwise you may have been a bit guilty yourself. Many dealers sell cars that they have pre-registered to meet manufacturers' bonus conditions - quite often it is the way that they make profit. They then sell these cars off at a big discount but they will be careful to advertise them in such a way that it is clear that the car isn't being supplied direct from the manufacturer. When a good deal comes along how many of us think about the reasons for it being cheap?
Hope the dealer has misled you but I doubt it.

 

What's the name of the garage...

we recently purchased a new van through teh Fiat dealership in Doncaster and exactly the same scenario occured with the ownership details...be interesting to know if it's the same people...van also sold on principle of "new" vehicle

 

I did not get a 'big discount'.I bought the car in good faith as a NEW car...

It was not a 'car supermarket' but a FIAT main dealers. In fact I was put in touch with them by FIAT after the dealership I was going to buy a car from went bust. Moreover the discount I got was because I had no part ex. the list price was about £8100 and I paid £7643. In any case putting all this aside why is my insurer not representing against the 3rd part insurer rather than fleecing me? how can you say they are right...Oh i forgot you work for an insurance company!!

 

FIAT Piccadilly Motors Limited..

Bradford Road, Wrenthorpe Wakefield

 

RE: I did not get a 'big discount'.I bought the car in good faith as a NEW car...

Jock was the insurance guy not me!
However, I can see that an insurance company will not count a car as new if you are the second registered owner - the car depreciates ridiculously just because of that fact even though it only had 4 miles on the clock. I only speak as someone who has bought my last two cars in this way. They were both from main dealers and were both pre-registered. In fact I deliberately sought out such deals and therefore was able to negotiate big discounts (aren't I a clever cloggs!).
Just trying to be helpful cos it does sound as though the fault in your predicament lies with the dealer if they didn't make it clear that you were not to be the first registered user.

 

Question for JOCK..

...So if the garage documentation and FIAT Finance states the car is 'new' you are still saying "I have not got a leg to stand on". Surely that is FRAUD and I can sue them. Although as someone who works in insurance I am surprised that you do not recognise that, since my insurers should be recovering from the 3rd party I should be indemnified for ALL my losses and end up neither gaining or losing. Although knock for knock agreements exist my insurers should still be representing ME! Should they not at least provide me with either a vehicle of similar age, condition and specification or sufficient recompense to do so. Also they should recover other uninsured losses from the 3rd party insurer like my excess, car hire costs as I am going on holiday for a week and the courtesy car is not big enough for family and luggage.

I used to work in motor insurance manu years ago and studied for my ACII exams. From what you say ethical standards in insurance have slipped a long way since those days. To me a 'new car' is a 'new car' registered by a dealership or otherwise. And no - 2nd hand value when selling privately is unaffected after 4 or 5 years. People with any sense are more concerned with condition, FSH and price than how many owners a car has had, within reason' especially since the first owner was the dealership and the period they 'owned it' was for less than 2 weeks!
You sound like a 'jobsworth' who has no concept of customer care (Call centre?) and lives to save as much money as possible for the company. Sad reflection on the current state of business in this country nowadays I'm afraid.

 

Sorry I meant to reply to Jock...

I think we are missing the point in many ways. The whole point was the 3rd party insurer should be where my battle lies. MY insurer should be getting the best deal for me not trying to worm out of re-imbursing me. The accident was not my fault and yet it is me who is paying the price. All I want is to end up in the same place I started with a car of same make model and spec, similar age (<3 months) 13OO miles. Not bothered how they do it! And you try getting a New FIAT PANDA with specific accessories at a discount dealers.

 

You are barkig up the wrong tree TeckyTyke

You're wrong on this one I'm afraid. That's not what insurance companies are for. They are not your personal champions. They are there to insure your car. And that is what they have done. The value that they will pay out is dictated by the terms of the insurance contract and you are falling foul of the term that states that you have to be the first registered owner to get full cost of the car back.

If you want to pursue uninsured losses then that is your right and you can pursue them from the third party insurer, but your own insurer is not responsible for bearing the cost of pursuing these losses. That is what solicitors are for. They will only pay you what they owe you, and depending on accepted fault, they can then recover their own costs from the third party insurer.

If you want to pursue uninsured losses then you bear the costs of that yourself and add it to the claim if you are successful. Otherwise, you take out legal cost protection as part of your insurance, which is designed to pay for the solicitor in thse kind of cases. It costs about another £10 or so and is well worth it.

You have to accept that your insurer is not to blame here. You can chase your uninsured losses through the third party insurer if you want, but your main gripe is with the dealer.