It seems to me that there is an easy way to settle the debate. All that needs to be done is to construct two balance sheets of playing staff. On the first you list the squad that Davey took over from Ritchie and value each member of that squad. To this list you add the transfer fees paid for players signing for the club during Davey's tenure. On the second you list the current squad and value each member of that squad. To this you add the transfer fees received for players leaving the club. If the first list has a value higher than the second then Davey is useless, if the opposite is the case then he is not. Now before people start calling me naive, I realise that the values placed on players is very much down to opinion and is also dependent upon the time remaining upon the players contract. I also realise that transfer fees are often not stated accurately for one reason or another. However, I do not think that these problems will be too relevant because I think that the figures will be be so favourable to Davey that it will not matter. Hoewever, in order to avoid accusations of bias, I propose Paul D be the statistician and arbiter on player values.
I like it. But... ....could we put a value on the cup run? As I would argue that is an extra sign of succes.... ...and derby victories! (maybe not!)
in order for davey to be judged a success does the value of the current squad have to be lower? Does it have to be significantly lower than when he took over? If it is a better squad now then he will be a failure wont he as the performances and points would not match the increase in spending and value of players. Therefore the manager is failing to correctly manage those players
What does this prove? He lost money on Mattis and Mostto and will lose money on Special Kay when we finally get rid We got £500k for Howard who was already there so all Davey's signings have done is lose money. Or am I missing the point?
How many of his signings have we sold? Not many, for instance next week if we sold Leon, Colace, Muller, Anderson, JCR etc...and got a few million for the lot would we look at it and think well a million wasted in transfer fees but a few more million made from the sale of players....so he's a success. Doubt it.
Success to a certain extent, but only in so far of keeping..... us up, as for moving us on from that, then no, he's hit his full potential, as for giving him money to spend on forwards, this in my opinion is a grave mistake.
That's how you determine the success of a manager then? So, if we made a profit every season by selling players but were relegated to the conference we would actually be a successful club? Not in my book.
subjectively............... <font size="2"> the team that played Ritchie's last game:-</p> Nick Colgan </p> Bobby Hassell Antony Kay Paul Reid Paul Heckingbottom </p> Michael McIndoe Sam Togwell Brian Howard 75 Martin Devaney </p> 59 Tommy Wright Daniel Nardiello </p> </p> </p> </p> 59 Paul Hayes Anthony McParland Neil Austin Robbie Williams 75 Nicky Wroe </p> doesn't contain very many who I'd want now compared to the team who beat Charlton away 3-1-our best result this season IMHO-maybe Howard and McIndoe at their very best?</p> <font color="#ff0000" size="2"><font color="#000000">Heinz Muller</font> </font></p></font><font size="2"> Stephen Foster Dennis SouzaDarren Moore Robert Kozluk </p> Jamal Campbell-Ryce Hugo Colace Anderson De Silva 90 + 3 Martin Devaney </p> 90 Jonathan Macken 72 Iain Hume </p> </p> </p> </p> 72 Diego Leon Bobby Hassell 90 Miguel Mostto Kayode Odejayi 90 + 3 Maceo Rigters </p></font>
well for me his success is measured by keeping us in the championship and a wonderful cup run - no one can take those memories away! as for his signings i think even fergie and wenger have signed some rubbish i their time
Sucess, not far short of a good squad which he will build given time. Swapping and changing managers all the time does not help for a settled team. I'm afraid we are one of the smaller clubs of the Championship and need time to build.
Not you Jay, I only read the headline not the body...... to red rains post, he's potty, success can be measured in where you finish in the table year on year nowt to do with balance sheets, if that were the case Crewe would be held up as a shining beacon of success, I know where I'd rather be.
To clarify my point. If you take the value of the squad that Davey took over, you have the market value that Davey would have had to pay in order to purchase those players at the start of his tenure as manager. If you add the money he has spent on players since, then the total represents the amount invested by him. If you then take the amounts of money recouped by him in transfer fees received and add that to the current market value of the current squad you have the total value of players that have been or could be sold. If you look at a Profit and Loss account for a firm this is exactly what is done. Sales are adjusted for openning and closing stocks and purchases are deducted in order to arrive at gross profit. Of course, a football club is judged on its league position, but if a manager is successful over a period of time in improving gross profit, an improved league position will eventually follow. In the case of Crewe, they have sold their best players in order to stay alive because gates could not support them at Championship level. There is no evidence that Barnsley intend to sell their best players without investing the proceeds back into the squad.
RE: FA Cup run was a success Keeping us in this league is at least a small achievement I reckon, especially as we are down in the bottom 4-5 for average gates. I would be happy with mid-table for a few years, and we are sort of edging towards that (hopefully!).