Slavery

Is it just me, or is anyone else fed up with this apologizing over slavery argument now?

Its 200 years ago, and nowt to do with me, why should I be made to feel guilty about the sins of my ancestors?

When actually looking at your average West Indian its clear they are descended from both slaves and slave-owners. Perhaps they should apologies to themselves? While I demand an apology because more recently my ancestors were sent down the pit as children.

Time to get over it and look at today’s issues not the past

 

Maybe they should be using it to highlight what is still happening

around the world. It's something that's happened, it's something that people are still living on the fruits of their ancestors exploitation of others so why not highlight it. My only criticism is there is is not more emphasis onwhat is still going on.</p>

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/slavery1.html</p>

 

Absolutely staggering. You eloquently emphasise the need for this to be focused on. Instead of your knee-jerk anti-pc reaction, try reading or watching some of the coverage.

 

I agree that I don't see what good an apology from the government would do, but that doesn't detract from the anniversary of the abolition and what that meant. There have been some very interesting programmes on, like the one about Harewood House and the ancestor of a slave whose surname was Harewood because when the slaves were released they still took the surname of their master. It was interesting seeing him at the house speaking with the current Lord Harewood, there was no feeling there that there should be an apology, but that must have been a very strange feeling for both parties (I felt strange just visiting an old jail in Dublin and hearing some of the things the British did to in the late 19th and early 20th centuries). The interesting point though was that whilst the slaves were freed, the masters were compensated with vast sums of money, so there are people whose wealth results from that immoral trade.

 

I am not suggesting for a minute that we forget the evils of slavery. I was raised on regular visits to the Wilberforce museum in Hull and have had my stomach turned by visiting the slave exporting castles on the west of Africa while standing on the compressed remains and filth of dead slaves.
But my point is I don't see how an apology by people not involved helps in any way. I am getting fed up of this being discussed, not fed up with learning about the evils of the slave trade.

I also remain to be convinced that we are still living off the immoral income of slavery. 200 years is enough time for fortunes to have been made and lost. I see little evidence that the slave trading nations are now wealthier than other developed nations that were not involved in the trade. And also many decedents of slaves are much better off than their African brothers (although that in no way justifies the act).

 

It was a human tragedy 200 years ago. It's easy to say "I was not involved, so I'm not sorry" but that is a cop out. The best way for our nation to say "sorry" is to ensure the trade today is squased as it was 200 years ago. That is easier said than done today.

One thing (or maybe two) that annoy me;

Only the British are getting called to question; we were not the only ones to conduct this vile trade, but were the ones who stopped it.

and, contraversial, there are a small number of African tribes who should also be called upon to apologise as they actively caught and sold their own people to the British and others.

And another thing; The Jamaican Prime Minister is thinking of claiming repairitions from the British Government as he says the "Jamaican people will never forget". There needs to be forgiveness on both sides for it not to become a white man bashing event. Let us not forget that whilst the white man was barbaric enough to start the trade, he was also civilised enough to end it.

All caused by money....

 

"Only the British are getting called to question; we were not the only ones to conduct this vile trade, but were the ones who stopped it."
The British stopped the trade here and in British territories, it still went on for quite a few more years in the US and was a factor in the American Civil War. I think it is misleading to say that only the British are getting called to question, more a case of the media here are focussing on the British side of this but there is a similar dialogue ongoing in the US.

 

Marland follows Virginia in apologising for their part in the slave trade

hardly just the British called into question is it?</p>

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/26/slavery.maryland.ap/index.html</p>

 

The British did stop the trade, by using the Royal Navy to stop the export of slaves from Africa to countries still using slaves.

Slavery existed long before the British/French/Spanish/Portuguese began using it in their american colonies. It already existed in African, euuropean slavers tapped into that supply. It was prevalent in Arab countries and in South American societies before colonisation. It was common in Anglo-Saxon, Viking and Roman societies. In fact, most societies have felt the yoke at some point.

This does not make it right, however, to demand an apology for it so far down the line is ridiculous. I might as well demand an apology from Normandy for the years of oppresion for Anglo-Saxon, Viking and Welsh under their rule.

 

Will Windy apologise ?

For enslaving mrx ?

 

To apologise surely means

you are admitting liability.</p>

God knows what can of worms thatwould open.</p>

 

The Normans were the descendents of the Vikings (from Norsemen)

so how could they apologise to themselves? What nonsense!

 

Who?

Move on.

 

RE: The Normans were the descendents of the Vikings (from Norsemen)

Yadda Yadda Yadda.

 

I agree that an apology is not the greatest of use...

I think more use is the inclusion of slavery in the National Curriculum for History - not before time.

The difference between the other instances of slavery you mention, and probably the reason why there's more emphasis of colonial slavery, is that the Triangle Trade helped set the economic balance of the world to this day.

I don't agree with apologies (and certainly not direct reparations although donations to educational bodies wouldn't go amiss) but it riles me when people grumble about aid to Africa and how "it's all one way"... Education is the key.

Saying that, as Y Goch rightly points out, our ancestors were little more than slaves anyway - we had more in common with the Black slaves than with the industrialists or Royalty in this country. Mind you, that's gotta be one good reason to get less nationalistic about the issue than more...

 

I quoted you the other day, in a post...

It worried me a little bit that I'm finding your words such little pearls of wisdom that I'd include them!!!

 

RE: I quoted you the other day, in a post...

How did you include 'Get em killed' in your argument?

 

RE: I agree that an apology is not the greatest of use...

>I think more use is the inclusion of slavery in the National Curriculum for History - not before time.

Agree, as long as it is handled correctly and in full context of world history - actually I think World history should be taught, no more of this nonsense about Columbus discovering America (Cuba and Puerto Rica yes, but even then, way after the locals and the Chinese) or European Christianity being the be all and end all - need lots more of Greek, Roman, Muslim, Indian and Chinese histories to really understand the world we live in.

>probably the reason why there's more emphasis of colonial slavery, is that the Triangle Trade helped set the economic balance of the world to this day.

Hmm, not sure if I believe this, it did the Spanish, Portugese and French no good. It helped the British, but our position had far more to do with the industrial, agricultural and social revolutions of the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries.

>Saying that, as Y Goch rightly points out, our ancestors were little more than slaves anyway

Exactly, don't ask me to apoogise for slavery when my family was probably in a weavers shed earning a pittance.

 

"String 'em up"...

Was my actual quote, mate...

Seriously, it was your one the other week about political correctness and how some time it just boils down to correctness...

 

Church was responsible for a lot of slavery. Used to brand them with red hot pokers. Can't see that an appology is of any use. Once they start something in this country they never let it rest.