Subbing Declan Rice for Jordan Henderson

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Jack Tatty, Jul 12, 2021.

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  1. Jack Tatty

    Jack Tatty Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if this topic was discussed yesterday but I'd like to ask folk with tactical knowledge to explain that decision.

    It was a like for like sub that i couldnt understood the logic of and up to being taken off Rice had been exceptional for us.

    I could understand it if Mount had been withdrawn as he had become almost anonymous in the second half and we were getting overrun in the middle of the park and using a central "wall" of 3 in Rice Phillips and Henderson.
     
    Jack Tatty, Jul 12, 2021
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  2. Redhelen

    Redhelen Well-Known Member

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    Tbf Rice did look done in
    .
     
    Redhelen, Jul 12, 2021
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  3. Jack Tatty

    Jack Tatty Well-Known Member

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    You mean Rice was cooked?

    He certainly wasnt off the boil though.
     
    Jack Tatty, Jul 12, 2021
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  4. red

    redrum Well-Known Member

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    I thought rice had a good game untill he was subbed Henderson did little i thought it could have been to take a pen but he didn't do that either strange one.
     
    redrum, Jul 12, 2021
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  5. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

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    Only assumed it was a knock, or a need for fresh legs because Rice had put a hell of a shift in.

    But yes, I'd have brought Henderson (Or Bellingham) on for Mount, and played a 3 in midfield. No idea how Mount stayed on for so long.

    Will never understand why he brought Grealish on in the 99th min, when he had two forwards on the bench that he was desperate to take a pen, that could've caused them problems with their pace during the game.
     
    leythtyke, Jul 12, 2021
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  6. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    He's missed his last two penalties for England. We didn't want him anywhere near a penalty yesterday.

    Everyone has their own opinion, but Rice was done and holes were starting to appear. I think it was smart to maintain the shape but try and calm the ship, bring on the legs and experience of Henderson, and try and pick them off on the counter. The positions he was taking up (maybe not as obvious on TV vs. being at Wembley) were helping us get the ball forward but a couple of times the final spin or pass didn't come off and we were unlucky not to break away. Thought Southgate used him well in that game.

    My only slight criticism would be to have given Rashford and Sancho five plus minutes rather than 20 seconds. But in Southgate's defence it felt like those two subs were lined up for 2/3 minutes but the ref never allowed them to come on until before the corner.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Jul 12, 2021
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  7. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    No issue with this change at all other than I would have had Grealish on right at the start of extra time. Especially with certain Italy players on yellow cards. His trickier caused panic and I thought that despite an uneventful second half attacking wise, we looked threatening in extra time. Sancho or Rashford for Sterling was the change to make at half time of extra time - however, Sterling was still finding space and still bouncing around with energy.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Jul 12, 2021
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  8. Dav

    DavidCurriesMullet Well-Known Member

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    Thought Rice last night was along with Shaw our best players. Mount struggled but let's not forget he had very limited opportunities to break the lines. The Italians were supreme off the ball.
     
    DavidCurriesMullet, Jul 12, 2021
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  9. RC_

    RC_tyke Well-Known Member

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    Last night was the best I’ve seen Rice play I think. He was winning the ball and driving forward with it. However, as others have said, he did fade a little bit.

    I’m not a fan of Henderson. Other than his leadership vocally, I’m not sure what he brings. Maybe I’m just missing it with him but he wasted quite a few passes last night and wasn’t really pressing Italy all that much.
     
    RC_tyke, Jul 12, 2021
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  10. Redarmy87

    Redarmy87 Well-Known Member

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    We can discuss the whys and the whatfors till the cows come home. We lost because we're England and it went to penalities.
     
    Redarmy87, Jul 12, 2021
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  11. Jack Tatty

    Jack Tatty Well-Known Member

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    I'm not talking about the game as a whole.

    Im discussing a moment/desicion in the game.
     
    Jack Tatty, Jul 12, 2021
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  12. Men

    Menai Tyke Well-Known Member

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    Southgate had conceded winning the game and had settled on taking a 50/50 shot on pens. The fact we never put Sterling up for a foot race against either Bonnuci or Chiellini the only time we did it was when Saka got past him and we saw what happened then.
     
    Menai Tyke, Jul 12, 2021
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  13. Jack Tatty

    Jack Tatty Well-Known Member

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    Was beyond cynical that foul.

    Dark arts master. I would have red carded the swine.
     
    Jack Tatty, Jul 12, 2021
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  14. Redarmy87

    Redarmy87 Well-Known Member

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    All leads to the same conclusion. Penners for England: add two years to the song.
     
    Redarmy87, Jul 12, 2021
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  15. Old Goat

    Old Goat Well-Known Member

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    They should have had fifteen minutes at least for me, although with hindsight it's a shame Italy didn't keep the ball in play for the last twenty seconds and stop them coming on. ;)
     
    Old Goat, Jul 12, 2021
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  16. Old Goat

    Old Goat Well-Known Member

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    I'd have gladly shot him. Cost me fifty quid, that booking did.

    I can laugh about it now, though. The *******.
     
    Old Goat, Jul 12, 2021
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  17. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

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    Personally I would’ve brought Grealish on in the second half, and would’ve had him as one of the penalty takers. But once it got to the point of the game when he did bring him on, Sancho would’ve offered enough threat during the game (not sure why he’s so far down the pecking order tbh), and Southgate wanted him to take a penalty. Not sure why you would bring a forward on that you don’t want taking a pen after 100 minutes.

    I don’t think taking Sterling off at half time of extra time would raised too many eyebrows either
     
    leythtyke, Jul 12, 2021
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  18. icer

    icer Well-Known Member

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    Henderson replacing Rice was a logical step. However I wish we had a Plan B for centre mid. We have 3 players with the same approach. I actually was hoping that when Trent A-A was injured he would have brought in someone like Ward-Prowse in. Good with free kicks, breaks play up and gives a bit of something different. With Grealish getting the fouls and Ward-Prowse swinging them in would have been an option.
     
    icer, Jul 12, 2021
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  19. Jack Tatty

    Jack Tatty Well-Known Member

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    And takes penalties.
     
    Jack Tatty, Jul 12, 2021
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  20. icer

    icer Well-Known Member

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    Yep. He has about a 76% success rate for Soton. I cant figure why another centre half was added when we had Mings, Coady and even Walker that could play there knowing Stones and Maquire were always nailed on if fit. Makes it even more puzzling that we also had a load of full backs. Southgate did a great job and proved a lot of doubters wrong, I'm proud of these players and what they did but to win a major tournament its more about fine margins than major steps. I dont pretend to know what they are but we as armchair analysts will see somethings
     
    icer, Jul 13, 2021
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