SYP - your experiences

Just had a message from a journalist pulling together a piece on SYP and the opinions of supporters in their jurisdiction. I've got no real beef with 'em but I know plenty have - questions below, feel free to answer.

1) What are Barnsley fans’ general perceptions of how South Yorkshire Police deal with football supporters, compared to other forces they encounter?

2) Does the Hillsborough verdict affect how the SYP are viewed among fans in South Yorkshire? ie does it reaffirm already held opinions, or is there any feeling of defensiveness towards their police force? This could take into account other scandals such as Orgreave or Rotherham – do these change the way Barnsley fans view the people policing them in any way?

3) Do Barnsley fans trust the South Yorkshire Police?

4) Have there been any particular incidents when Barnsley fans have had reason to complain about, or praise, their treatment by SYP over the years?

5) What are Barnsley fans’ experiences of visiting Hillsborough itself? Obviously they tend to be bigger games – have you ever found the police to be over-zealous compared to visiting Bramall Lane? What about when visiting grounds controlled by other forces such as Leeds?Are all police forces viewed as roughly equal?

6) What are Barnsley fans’ experience of the Leppings Lanes stand? You have filled it a few times over the years – do you happen to have gone both pre- and post-disaster? If so, how would you compared recent experiences to pre-1989?

 

We're all animals and so get treated as such.

Also, if they hadn't spent so much defending the indefensible perhaps match policing costs wouldn't be the issue it seems to be.

 

Also that episode at Millmoor, them lovely person*'t on the horses could see exactly what was happening and didn't give a flying f***.

 

Re question 6.

Me and a mate went in 1983 (won 1-0 Glavin) and my mate was hit by a coin thrown by those lovely Wendy fans. Otherwise a most enjoyable occasion.

With regard to the police, I've only had bad experiences at away grounds where visiting fans were treated like animals, notably at Bellend Road. Also they were pretty well non-existent at St Andrews for the play-off semi final in 2000 when the Brummie fans, upset by their team's drubbing, ran riot after the game.

 

What episode was that?

 

Can't really comment not living in the area but re. Q6. Mid 80s, as I have mentioned many times. We played them in the league and FA cup fairly close. Cup game was all ticket. Presented ticket at turnstile for lower tier, walked through 'courtyard' like bit to entrance only to be turned back by stewards saying it was full, we had to go to upper entrance. Turned to be met by hoards still coming towards lower. No coordination or cooperation, just chaos. Pete with me shout the words I'll always remember - somebody will die here if they don't sort it.

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The one thing I would say when looking at Hillsborough and South Yorkshire Police's behaviour is that you have to put it in the context of the time. That doesn't constitute apologism for all the despicable things that happened - everyone who caused and covered up the disgraceful events of Hillsborough absolutely deserve everything that is undoubtedly coming to them - I'm just saying that policing then has to be looked at in the context of the "football experience" at that time

Aggressive policing was just endemic, and South Yorkshire Police weren't necessarily the worst (I'd reserve that dubious honour for West Midlands Police). You can very firmly draw a line between the football experience pre and post Taylor report. I was only young at the time (10 years old when Hillsborough happened, I was at Oakwell and remember the events unfolding on the radio) but even as a kid I'd been involved in a load of scary situations at away games when travelling with my Dad - from memory I saw it kick off pretty severely at Leeds, Swindon, Manchester City, Aston Villa, Stoke, with Everton at Oakwell and at Middlesbrough all in the late 1980's. Again, not apologism but you also have to remember this was the heyday of the gangs of absolute (and clearly rampantly homosexually charged) bellends like Blades Business Crew, West Ham's Intercity Firm and Chelsea's Headhunters etc, so it's perhaps no wonder that the police's general stance was one of aggression (which frequently bubbled over into causing trouble where none was required).

All this also explains why it was so easy for the Sun, the police and the Tories to launch their vile smear campaign - football fans were treated as second class citizens (and to be fair, they didn't exactly help their own reputation - I refer you to the aforementioned closet gay firms above). Thatcher famously hated football fans (despite the fact that a lot of the Southern ones were responsible for keeping her in power). And it became the societal norm to be treated like a piece of ****. That's just what you expected when you went to an away game. Buses stopped on the way there and parked up miles out of town. Get to the ground five minutes before kick off - an example - as a ten year old boy with my dad, a teacher in his late 40s, not even being allowed to walk up a road to the chip shop in Sunderland despite him having a diabetic hypo. Be penned in behind a cattle fence for 90 minutes. Get kept behind for half an hour after a game. Get ferried straight back home as nobheads lob stones at your bus. That wasn't specific to SYP, it was just everywhere.

 

Can he look at Derbyshire police ?

regarding Chesterfield away this season ? Or staffs police regarding Port Vale last year ? Or all the forces in England that treat away fans like 2nd class citizens ?

Or is he just wanting to make a name for himself by jumping on the Hillsborough bandwagon?

SY police mangement are f.cking awful by the way and Leppings Lane inside the ground and out is disgrace.

 

In March 1990, almost a full year after Hillsborough, Barnsley played Sheffield United at Bramall Lane. We'd had a titanic battle with them in the 5th round of the FA Cup which went on and on. There'd been a couple of postponements due to snow and Sheff Utd eventually won the second replay 1-0. Less than three weeks later we had our revenge in the league. Sheffield United would go on to be promoted, missing out on the title by goal difference to Leeds. We managed to secure our division two status (Championship), but when we played at Bramall Lane we were well in the relegation mire. We beat them 2-1. We went on to beat both Leeds and Middlesbrough away, which remain two of my favourite ever Barnsley games. This one should make up the trio, but it was soured and the reason for that was South Yorkshire Police.

I was stood towards the back of the terracing under the stand with my dad, his wife and my brother. I was 17 years old. When Barnsley scored there was jubilation on the terracing, singing and chanting, but not a sign of trouble. A large number of South Yorkshire's finest entered the terracing from the gates at the front that led from the pitch and started indiscriminately hitting Barnsley fans with truncheons. All hell broke loose. A boisterous and celebratory crowd was suddenly and for no reason attacked. Some ran for their safety while others fought their corner.

Behind us, laughing, was a sergeant and a constable. I couldn't believe what I'd just witnessed, so I walked over to the two police officers and asked them, politely, what had just taken place and why. One of the officers took me by the throat and threatened me with violence. I have never seen my dad so angry before or since. Fortunately his wife physically restrained him because he was about to crack two police officers.

South Yorkshire Police learnt nothing from Hillsborough because they lied about their role in it and denied any wrong doing, so they were never brought to task, allowing them to carry on in exactly the same manner, treating football fans like sub-human scum. 96 deaths didn't change them one iota. Someone ordered the rank and file in to the Barnsley end that afternoon. It was a coordinated attack. Someone with authority. Someone who would have been aware, as we all were, what had happened to football fans just a few miles up the road only 12 months earlier.

 

That's more eloquent and structured than my response - agree with every word.

 

Just copy pasting that from another thread cos ok still a bit miffed. definitely not uncommon from SYP. We are cattle to herd

 

PS Don't give the above to the journalist. I don't know who he/she is, what their angle is or what they're trying to achieve. It's for people on here to read. You can have it for your rag though if you like, if you're doing a section on Hillsborough and all that.

 

The policing at Hillsbro has always been poor...

Ever time I've been it's always been hectic to say the least after the game.
Wednesday nutters congregating near the away exit gates goading and shouting obscenities. Police did nothing until they threatened to, or in some cases, arrested retaliating Barnsley fans.
Why isn't Leppings lane (where the coaches park) closed to home fans after the game. Incidentally Bramall Lane was cordoned off with the 'Iron Curtain' last week.

I was a Miner and was at Orgreave several times including that fateful day. Police officers from all over the country were there that day. I did notice that the SYP mounted division took delight in leading the charge through defenceless people.
One last thing about Orgreave was the use of Agent Provocateurs. When a large group of young men towards the back were approached by Union officials in a plea to stop throwing, they were threatened by these young men who were described as being from about 19 to mid twenties. Not having local accents and were quite 'clean cut' in their appearance. When the assault began they disappeared as mysteriously as they had arrived.

 

Re: The policing at Hillsbro has always been poor...

There really does need to be an enquiry on Orgreave.

 

Re: The policing at Hillsbro has always been poor...

Hi Tarntyke. A good mate of mine was in West Yorks Police. He was shipped down to SY for pretty much 12 months. He's a labour man, bordering socialist, through and through. He knows the stories of the SYP and others waving their money at striking miners, but him and most of his mates were quite different and struck up a bit of a rapport with some miners. When he made up his snap on a morning, him and his mates made double - then they would share sarnies, flasks etc with strikers. They also donated cash at all the picket lines they worked on.
I know it's an emotive subject and I agree that Police Command were absolute morons throughout (spurred on my those in higher power) but did you ever come across any 'decent' coppers as mentioned above?

 

I remember that game. I decided I wanted to go at last minute - took a mate at spur of the moment and drove to Sheffield without having a clue of the directions to Bramall Lane. Left Bradford after 1pm and pretty much parked on the pavement outside the ground - no ticket no nothing. I remember the game for three reasons - funny how certain events stick in your mind.
1) The result
2) The humour and camaraderie in the crowd. I was towards the front to the left of goal. The lads around us were hilarious, the singing non-stop. But the hilarity really came from one of their mates who walked in from outside with his shopping bag via the police tunnel, and just stood with the photographers behind the goal to watch the game. He'd been shopping on decided to try his luck and getting in. Unchallenged, he just stood there with his shopping bag for the best part of 90 mins nonchalantly watching the match from near the touchline.
3) Cops assault. As mentioned, I'd taken a Bradford mate. He was amazed at the atmosphere generated and at the humour and warmth of the Barnsley folk in the crowd. Although we weren't touched by the cops, we were genuinely amazed as they made their way yo the back and with no apparent reason started battering people at random. I might very well have witnessed what you describe - I don't know. What I do no is that it seemed indiscriminate and planned. Certainly left a few of us bewildered.

That and our FA Cup match across the City weren't the best of football supporting experiences.

Worst Police experience at Oakwell was in 84 at the height of the strike. It was trivial in the grand scheme of things but I was an innocent happy-go-luck teenager. Night match, got the bus from Bradford which was a bit delayed. Thought I was going to miss kick-off (not sure why I was so bothered about that) and jogged from the station. Asked a couple of coppers on the corner for the time, in my own polite, innocent manner, and was pushed away and told to keep fcking moving". Fairly aggressive shove if I remember.

 

I've already passed this thread on to him - will make it clear or ask admin to change it mate. Apologies, should've made that clear.

 

Re: The policing at Hillsbro has always been poor...

Yes mate they were genuine good good guys amongst the rank and file who simply came to do their job without prejudice. My uncle was a serving officer in SYP and got injured in a scuffle with pickets. My worst experiences and stories that I heard largely involved the London Met. They enjoyed the whole thing from picket lines to rampaging through villages at night.

 

Re: The policing at Hillsbro has always been poor...

There should be a mechanism among all public safety and control personnel whereby they can whistleblow and be listened to.
I've heard all the excuses etc that wrong accusations etc but if an independent body were set up to sift through them I'm sure it could easily be done although I don't expect the govt to approve these initiatives in any way.

IMO an independant body with the teeth to look St the rank and file officers concerns without them being highlighted is the only way to stop the abuses at the top.

I was also at orgreave and many other picket lines during the miners strike and an investigation is a must IMO.

Loads of different police forces at the time in SY and notts but the orders came from the top brass at SYP.
And yes there were many decent rank and file officers on those picket lines.

 

It might also be as much to do with the approach of Sheff Utd.

I can't remember the year, or much of this particular game but I left feeling so angry that I wrote to Sheff Utd and complained about their aggressive stewarding at this match. Before the match kicked off I was watching the antics of what looked like a "hit squad"" of stewards all dressed in black who appeared to be practicing a snatching exercise in front of the Barnsley fans. The crowd was in good humour with a good number of them having had a "wet" before the game and as we were attacking towards our end a fan was stepped into the aisle on the front row when suddenly the snatch squad came in and took him out for no obvious reason. He was very badly manhandled as he struggled. This also seemed to happen to others. At no time did I see the said fan go onto the perimeter, well not voluntarily anyway. There did not seem any logical reason for this action, hence my letter of complaint.

Mick Spinks asked me to tell him if I got a response which I think he wasn't expecting me to get. But I did, and what a lengthy tome it was. The head of health and safety i think it was that replied. His response was that they had checked CCTV and found nothing meaning it didn't happen. He also went on to show how great their approach to crowd safety was by the supply of loads of testimonial type literature to back his view up. I felt that his style of response was designed to try and belittle me for daring to pass comment.

Don't think I have been to Bramall Lane since.