This is now gonna get serious....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41780116

 

As Harry Hill would say.....Fight....

Worrying times another civil war looming

 

Civil war is the only outcome I can see unfortunately....

 

Probably not the time to consider buying property in Spain (if you are a foreigner I mean). On the other hand the bottom could drop completely out of the market.

 

Very worrying. Think it's bit early to be talking about civil war, though.

 

surely the EU will sort it out? or err probably not

 

A lot of money in Catalonia. The Spanish government have handled this very badly so far.
Time for some proper dialogue & less brinkmanship.

Can't see war breaking out TBH, but heavy handedness by Madrid could make things very difficult.

I appreciate that prior to Franco's invasion Catalonia was an independent nation, if only for about 8 years, if memory serves.
Nationalism is a dangerous game & Catalonia seems to be doing OK. If there is a lot of uncertainty there
could be a lot of people pulling their money out of the country. The new nation wouldn't necessarily be part of the EEC, as far as I understand. Another nation shooting itself in the foot.... just like us.

 

My mates over in Salou are against it, one of em was actually born in Barnsley.

 

Most likely that Esp Gov will try to arrest many Catalan politicians. Only way it can work is with large demos and strikes. If they happen have to hope that the state doesn't use violence.

 

Wonder if the the Catalan socialists, communists and anarchists etc will decide to fall out with other like they did in the civil war when the nationalists were beating the metaphorical door down at barcelona?

 

As I said last year we are.definitely going to see a major conflict in Europe ww3

 

I think things hopefully have moved on from that & I'd be tempted to call Franco's forces Fascists, not Nationalists...
It is pretty hard to see how any good can come out of this from any side.

 

Why shouldn't Catalonia have their independence if they so wish. It would appear that the majority of Catalans want it.

 

I think none of us really know what the percentage is. I agree in principle with you, but an important referendum needs to be held with the acceptance of all parties. The one in Scotland was difficult enough, but appears to have been held fairly & the result was not disputed.
I think both sides have weakened, rather than strengthened their case. Catalonia cannot exist as an separate country from Spain, without EU neighbours support for a start. I've spent a fair bit of time in Catalonia in & Majorca, which has a similar devolved government. There is a strong cultural identity, language, etc & a lot of resentment of Franco, for very good reasons. A free and fair referendum allows all the economic, political, military considerations to be debated though, which are the things that affect most people's lives.

 

I do agree; democracy should always prevail but this must be initiated by a full referendum. I can't quote exact figures but I think it was something like 2 million voters turned out to the last referendum from an eligible 5.5 million voters.

The Spanish government made a mistake by making the last referendum illegal, not to mention the way they handled it.

What they need to do is allow a referendum to take place and agree that the result will be binding.

 

A country is nothing without its people, and if the people wish to be part of their own identifiable country, then no-one should stop them. However, there seems to be some doubts as to whether that first vote was a clear mandate for action, and even then, no vote should be final after a first referendum. At that point, no-one knows the terms of the separation, what is going to happen to dissenters, whether the new country is viable and what its economy is going to look like or what its debts will be. No-one should be expected to make a binding vote without knowing what they are voting for. I would have been sad to see Scotland go, and there are huge problems of nationality having shared the same borders for 400 years. However, if they had voted once for the principle of independence, and for a second time on the terms of independence, I would have reluctantly accepted their determination to leave. The same goes for our Brexit vote. I have said from the morning after that there needs to be a second vote once the terms of our exit are known and have been digested and fully understood. If the vote is again for Brexit, then I have to accept the majority will to leave.

 

Good news.
Says it all that the Tory Govt and EU are supporting the Spanish govt on it.

 

Well said. Totally agree.

 

Not just in the Catalan province where the ref was done ..but in Catalan Valencia and Balearics ..etc