This is scary

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by mansfield_red, Oct 18, 2021.

  1. man

    mansfield_red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,579
    Likes Received:
    8,909
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    55&counting and upthecolliers like this.
  2. Redhelen

    Redhelen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2018
    Messages:
    24,084
    Likes Received:
    26,688
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    It is . I've just read about it before you posted.

    Mind you , using the military and the European Bill of human rights in the explanation will mean too many voters will think he's right, without thinking about the possible implications.
     
  3. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2018
    Messages:
    16,409
    Likes Received:
    14,079
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Redblueunwhite likes this.
  4. Redhelen

    Redhelen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2018
    Messages:
    24,084
    Likes Received:
    26,688
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Can't pick and choose though
     
  5. man

    mansfield_red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,579
    Likes Received:
    8,909
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    The fact that you'd welcome it is the reason it should never happen. Separation of powers is a fundamental concept for a reason and I would not want to live in a country where the judiciary could be overridden by a government to score points with Johnny Public
     
  6. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    11,687
    Likes Received:
    12,041
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley
    It's been doing the rounds on social media, and prior to this, generally highlighting Raabs obscure loathing of the Human Rights Act and his personal wish to have it repealed.

    What this government is doing is unbelievable and all I can think is that large sections of our society are more concerned with baiting a few foreigners and the illusion of nobody telling us what to do rather than looking at legislations and the actual freedoms we are losing and to whos benefit.

    Electoral reforms and boundaries, ministerial codes, donations and cronyism, the scale of knighthoods to rebalance the Lords, procurement procedures, official reports, ethics assessments, repressing independent parts of the media (appointing all hard right tories at the BBC in head of its news, and the pending sell off of Channel 4), attacks on the legal sector and now potentially repealing human rights law are all playing out as people look on without much sign of concern.

    Take back control of our money, our borders and our laws. Remember that phrase? When they talked of taking back control... it wasn't to give it to the every day person in the street. Control is far too important to them to do just that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  7. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    9,084
    Likes Received:
    7,142
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    The reality is though that because Parliament is sovereign a government with a majority can already do that. The problems under Johnson's previous administration only arose because neither May nor he enjoyed a parliamentary majority. This appears to be about short-circuiting the parliamentary scrutiny of legislation to counteract an 'inconvenient' judgement. There is of course in this a deliberate obfuscation of the fact that the convention is totally separate from the EU. But Johnson and his cronies would dearly love to fight the next election over the embers of the otherwise ruinous brexit.
     
    Old Gimmer, churtonred and Redhelen like this.
  8. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    9,084
    Likes Received:
    7,142
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    The further irony is that the Human Rights Act was only enacted so that UK citizens would not need to resort to the Strasbourg court so frequently to uphold their rights. We can't reaistically ditch our sign-up to the convention without devising our own bill of rights. But since this could well involve more closely delineating the powers of the monarch successive governments have usually shied away from it. If we remain signed up to the convention then I would expect higher court judges to continue to decide cases where convention rights are engaged in a way that continues to take account of ECHR jurisprudence.
     
    Redhelen and Kettlewell like this.
  9. Brush

    Brush Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,561
    Likes Received:
    7,306
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Ex-IT professional
    Location:
    Swadlincote, South Derbyshire
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Absolutely spot on, yet another attack on the fundamentals of our country by a corrupt, partisan and incompetent government. What we need is for a government of national unity to put down a written constitution and reform the electoral system.
     
    Old Gimmer likes this.
  10. Tob

    Tobys Knackers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    881
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    What you worried about man. The Judiciary is full of old duffers who will of course get things wrong.

    The Government wouldn't use such a power for anything questionable, they're far too honest for that - and they clearly want to use it to make the Supreme Court the final arbitor rather than those nasty Europeans.

    Because, you know, the Supreme Court, errr, they can't do that any more for some reason that must have escaped me and virtually every other lawyer out there.

    To think of how it _could_ be used is frightening - but I'm sure they wouldn't be nasty!
     
    RedVesp and Redhelen like this.
  11. man

    mansfield_red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,579
    Likes Received:
    8,909
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    They can, but the rule of law requires that they only legislate prospectively. All laws should be prospective open and clear - all citizens should know what the laws are and what the consequences would be for breaking them. It is then down to the judiciary to apply those laws. For the government to step in and effectively immediately legislate on a retroactive basis to change an outcome they don't like is all kinds of wrong.
     
    Old Gimmer and Redhelen like this.
  12. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    9,084
    Likes Received:
    7,142
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I hadn't quite inferred that they would seek to change the decision of already-decided cases, but that they would legislate to ensure that the 'inconvenient' interpretation did not apply in the next case. If that did occur then as you say that would be totally wrong and contrary to usual legal principles. The further issue may be to what extent they act through secondary legislation, which as we've seen during the pandemic can be a tool to further avoid parliamentary scrutiny.
     
    Redhelen likes this.
  13. Red

    Redblueunwhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    2,712
    Likes Received:
    2,157
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Definitely they KNEW it was wrong regardless of their age ,but we won't go down that road again,hope they rot in hell.
     
    Stephen Dawson likes this.
  14. RedVesp

    RedVesp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2021
    Messages:
    3,124
    Likes Received:
    5,649
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Barnsley
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Jesus. Government meddling in court judgements?

    Stop the world, I want to get off.
     
  15. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    4,857
    Likes Received:
    6,188
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    62 children killed in the U.K. in the last 5 years, by adults, and the only case in the publics imagination is the one case where there could be a question mark over criminal culpability because the murderers were children.

    Honestly, the British public are so easily led it’s a surprise the Brexit vote was only 51%.
     
  16. Redhelen

    Redhelen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2018
    Messages:
    24,084
    Likes Received:
    26,688
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Exactly.
     
    Donny-Red likes this.
  17. Red

    Redblueunwhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    2,712
    Likes Received:
    2,157
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    They are ALL terrible but that was just one case I highlighted get off your high horse.
     
  18. Gravy Chips

    Gravy Chips Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Messages:
    1,812
    Likes Received:
    3,904
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Web Designer
    Location:
    Tarn Centre
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Smells like fascistic totalitarianism.
     
  19. Ton

    Tonjytyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2018
    Messages:
    2,221
    Likes Received:
    2,916
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Yes, I wonder what George Orwell would think about it?
     
  20. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    4,857
    Likes Received:
    6,188
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    But it’s always that one case.

    And it’s perverse; the reason that case is at the forefront of public consciousness is precisely because the perpetrators were children. It’s the fact that it’s an outlier that makes it be constantly brought up (and it wasn’t you who brought it up, I appreciate that).

    But it doesn’t alter the fact; the less people know about the justice system, the more certain they are that the death penalty is an answer to anything. It’s an idea borne out of ignorance.
     
    Redhelen likes this.

Share This Page