Those who admire Dan Jarvis...

Do you still believe he is the right might to represent his constituency even though he abstained on the Welfare Reform vote? That for me is all the proof you need that he is more concerned with advancing his own Parliamentary career than with the needs and values of the people who elected him.

For the record, Dugher abstained as well. Harman is a disgrace. Does she not realise that they lost so many seats in Scotland and votes in England because of the refusal to take on an anti-austerity stance and oppose the Tory cuts?

 

Or looked at another way, the Tories said what they were going to do and they gathered enough votes for a majority. It might not be pretty, but you'll never get elected if you're out of step with the public mood. "Politics is the art of the possible" might be one of the oldest cliches, but it's also one of the truest.

 

How on earth can we ever have democracy if the party in opposition simply imitate the policies of Government because that's what got them elected? That is essentially a one party State. If people like the Tory policies, they'll vote Tory, not for some 'Blue Labour' as Kendall or Ummuna would have it .

It's like the kid at school who tries to be like the popular lads so that he'll get the girls too. But everyone sees through it and he just ends up looking like a complete moron.

 

I read an interview with him in the Sunday Times and as I thought he's an empty vessel with no clear political convictions.

 

On the other hand, automatically opposing every policy of the opposition party just because they came up with it is stupid and childish and benefits no-one.

 

So how would you assess Tony Blair's three (landslide) victories then?

 

But did you not feel that Anne McElvoy set out with the intention of portraying him that way?

To be honest, I wouldn't blame him for keeping his powder dry just now. The mood (to say nothing of the state of the country) might look a little different by the time he gets a shot at it (bad metaphor, I know!).

 

Granted, but what about the people who actually voted the Labour Members into Parliament because they opposed the Tory manifesto? Their wishes should be represented, else Labour risk alienating even more of their traditional vote by chasing the floating minority, leading to a net gain of nothing, as the lost votes will counteract those they would win.

 

To be fair Blair was the same and he won three elections.

 

That was a wholly different time, which cannot be compared to the present, with the Western world trying to recover from a recession.

The economy at the time was on an even keel, and it was about providing the best chances for people within that. We're now in a situation where the Tories are exploiting an economic situation for ideological reasons, which Labour should never even entertain advancing.

 

And how will this help them get elected?

 

Never liked Dan Jarvis, he quite possibly had never heard of Barnsley before Mester Houghton stepped aside (for whatever reason...ahem) to let labour bung him in a safe seat.

However I agree with him on this one I am afraid.

As for the new LABOUR leader.....thereev votes for Liz Kendall.

certainly going nowhere fast under Burnham...imo of course

 

That's Sir Stephen to you, Mr Reev!

 

exactly Mester Kaht

 

You might want to consider some of the following

a collapsing Tory party riddled by sleaze and anti European factions under John Major 1992 - 1997

The enigmatic inspirational charismatic leadership of William Haigh in 1997- 2001

Ditto Ian Duncan Smith 2001-2003 and a Tory Party openly tearing itself in bits over Europe

Ditto the prince of darkness Micheal Howard and more of the same

 

Are you in step with the public mood if your policies only gather 36% of the votes.

Out of every 100 people who voted 64 rejected Tory policies, the electoral system we have is no indicator of 'public mood' simply reflective of first past the post votes which can be high or low depending on how the electorate split their preferences.

By the way I am not advocating anything just stating how it is

 

It's not ideal but unfortunately they've got to get re-elected in the first place. If they're seen as 'easy' on welfare then they never will do. The Tories are in pole position, if Labour move further left they become completely unelectable. If they don't, they're Tories.

It's not going to be easy for the new leader.

 

How do you account for the fact Labour lost 5 million votes during that time?

 

Houghton has never been a MP. Jarvis won a by-election caused by a Barnsley fan going to prison for fiddling his MP's expenses. Jarvis wasn't bunged into the seat. He went before a selection meeting.

 

yeah yeah, isn't naivety sweet folks!?