Whats wrong with english football

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board ARCHIVE' started by DartonDave, Jul 5, 2016.

  1. Dar

    DartonDave Member

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  2. LDR

    LDRed Well-Known Member

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    Money.

    End of thread.
     
  3. andytyke

    andytyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Because players in other countries don't earn massive amounts of money?
     
  4. Dar

    DartonDave Member

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    Do you mean players are paid too much?, clubs get too much?
    I mention money at the end of the blog.

    Its a good shout and if thats what you mean its something Im in agreement with but I think its the least of our worries.
    Top players in Spain, Italy and Germany wont exactly be short of a few quid.
     
  5. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    The reason England is not successful on the world stage is me.

    Let me explain. I am a typical British football watcher. I want to be excited, I want to be entertained, I want to see power and effort, but most of all, I want to see goal mouth action and goals. Of course, individual excellence is important, but it is not as important as the style that the game is played in. If I wanted to watch chess every Saturday, I am sure there are chess clubs that I could go to. But I don't, because chess does not have physical confrontation and effort.

    When I watch Spain play football, and the commentator tells me how wonderful tikka-takka is I think no it isn't. I am bored. I do not want to watch a game where 75% of the match is spent trying to tire your opponent so you might get the chance of scoring a goal in the final 20 minutes. I do not want to see defence dominate over attack. If that style of the game was used in England, the stadia would be empty, because that is not what we want to see. Possession for the sake of possession is anathema to entertainment. Entertainment comes from exchanging possession and each team having the chance to score when it gets its turn of possession of the ball. The game was invented here, and that is how the game was meant to be played.

    The problem for the national team is partly that our media build our expectations to an unreasonable level, and partly that intellectuals have taken over our game, and have persuaded the suits at the FA that nationally, we are playing a form of the game that cannot win tournaments. So our players play in a particular way week in and week out. A way that particularly suits our climate during the winter. It is a high tempo, pressing game. We play more games than any other league and we play in all weathers. When summer arrives, the players are tired. The last thing that they want to do is play the high tempo pressing game in summer, in a climate that does not suit the British style of playing the game.

    The suits at the FA know that we are unlikely to win anything playing the British way, at the wrong time of year, and in a climate that is unsuited to our national style of play. So what is the answer. Well the FA has deemed that even though we play all season in the British way, and our players are familiar only with that style of play, come a summer tournament, we will play in a way that is alien to us, giving ourselves about three weeks to adapt to the new style, new season and new conditions. It is just not possible to play a new type of game well with just 3 weeks to prepare. The team, the manager and the coaches are merely playing for a kicking off the media and the TV studio pundits, who should know better, particularly the British ones, who have in the past tried and failed themselves.

    Having seen the team fail once more, the media go looking for a scapegoat. The manager is sacked, the FA sets up a commission to analyse the reason and finds a number of technical faults in our game. A commission is set up to find an answer and lots of cash is spent, with lots of pockets being lined. The media sends out a signal of new hope, in the full and certain knowledge that the eventual destruction of these new hopes will sell plenty of papers. The circle continues to turn. In the mean time, the real power in our game, which is Sky, makes its money by providing the country with what it really wants. Top quality club football, played with high intensity, and with the best quality footballers that money can buy, irrespective of nationality.
     
  6. Jack Tatty

    Jack Tatty Well-Known Member

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    Sky
    the FA
    Mark Lawrenson
     
  7. Dar

    DartonDave Member

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    Thanks for that reply Red Rain. Much food for thought there. Appreciate the time you took to reply.
    I found myself agreeing or part agreeing with many things you said but I will make a few points if you don't mind.

    You seem to have summarised the English game to be a high tempo pressing game with lots of goal mouth action and teams like Spain to play a boring possession is everything passing game. And you prefer the excitement of the former.
    Fair enough. But, other than Spain who employ the majority of the Barcelona players so struggle to play any other way, lots of countries don't pay 'tikka-takka". Spain are an exception. Albeit a very successful one.

    I would also dispute that most British teams play fast attacking attractive football as you described. Many don't. I wish they did.
    German football is quite similar to British football but they don't change their style. Along with many other countries. They just do it better.

    Its a moot point but I don't believe its the FA who decide to play in an alien way. I think in this instance and as loathe as I am to look at the manager as the scapegoat, its the manager who decides the formation and the style of play. That 4-3-3 formation with unsuitable players just didn't work in euro 2016.

    Cant disagree with your last paragraph - spot on.
    Personally though as I said in the blog I would rather have players more British players in the English football league and have a weaker top league but with more players to choose from at international level.
     
  8. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    You are right, German Football is similar to British football, but they have a continental climate rather than a maritime one. As a result, they take a winter break. They recognise that this is only possible if teams play fewer games, so the leagues have fewer teams and I do not think they have the equivalent of the League Cup. The German players arrive at summer competitions fresher than their British counterparts. As you say, they do not have to learn 4-3-3 in 3 weeks at the conclusion of the season because they win competitions playing the German way, and their media are not constantly on the search for a scapegoat.

    It would be interesting to look at the performances of non-British players playing in the British leagues and compare those performances with their team-mates who play in non-British leagues. For example, Gareth Bale has been outstanding for Wales, but he plays in Spain. There is probably a need for more research, and I am sure that someone at the FA will be only too anxious to line their pockets, if only a suitable computer program could be found to predict a players performance matrixes without all the detrimental factors that are introduced by the FA, the England Manager, the climate, the number of club fixtures etc, etc, etc. Otherwise, we are all guessing.
     
  9. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    I would say that in the mix for the best players of the tournament so far are hazard, Joe Allen, Gunarrson and de gea who have all played in England this season
     
  10. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    I do not want to debate who are the best players in the tournament, as it is a different can of worms, but of the players that you have nominated, how many of them played a full season in an out field position?
     
  11. North Yorks Red

    North Yorks Red Well-Known Member

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    Bottle

    lack of mental strength, nobody seems to want to accept the responsibility.
    I think a lot is down to the pampered lives these players lead, they don't have to think or make decisions in real life, they say what they want and some flunky sorts it for them, same if they mess up there is somebody falling over themselves to make excuses.
    Also in the Prem they don't get the pressure week to week because there are easier games for them to impress in.
     
  12. Jack Tatty

    Jack Tatty Well-Known Member

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    Re: Bottle

    The arrogance of the FA and Sky are to blame
     
  13. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Well-Known Member

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    They're playing football once, sometimes twice a week, they're not working 50+ hours per week, every week. The top teams also rotate more than generations passed so many players don't play in every game, particularly in the league cup and early FA cup rounds. Tired in June; I'm not convinced at all.
     
  14. LDR

    LDRed Well-Known Member

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    You're right, there's nothing wrong with the amount of money in English football, how silly of me...
     
  15. andytyke

    andytyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Players in Spain, Italy etc earn obscene amounts of money, its doesn't make them crap. Doesn't make them less motivated to win trophys at international level. Theres far more wrong with English football than just money
     
  16. Dar

    DartonDave Member

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    It is incredible isn't it. To think that someone who trains for 2-4 hours a day and plays a couple of games a week, for 10 months a year could possibly be "tired".

    I for one wouldn't mind those sort of hours, even if I had to spend them all doing strenuous exercise.

    And as you said in days gone by, players used to play every minute of every game, hardly seemed to get injured and never complained of tiredness.

    However it does seem to be that footballers these days are more like highly tuned instruments (I refrained from saying tools) and that any slight knock or pull is enough to mean they cant play for a couple of weeks..
    We can say they should man up and do a proper job but it seems modern football now demands players with zero body fat, very lithe physiques and tendons tuned to an inch of perfection.
    Probably why Dale Jennings never made it. He would have brilliant in the 1970's ;)
    And its very difficult for the average man on the street (me) to relate to that level of fitness.
     
  17. Ged

    Geddiswasguud Well-Known Member

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    Good post darton...
    Another point is....tired is no excuse most of the euro stars play in the prem and are equally well paid.
    Also by all means shorten their matches but include a caveat that includes they then can't go on some winter errrrr break to the far east and play an 8 game mini league.
    We need more investment at coaching level too.
    I remember Germany...France and Spain ALL had root and branch reform after poor showings in world cup or euros...why can't we do the same?
     
  18. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    I have never been super fit. I played sport as a kid and continued to do so until I was 40 years of age. Then, I realised that I could not compete at the level I wanted to, so I stopped playing sport, and started walking. I walked the Pennine Way and the year after I did the Coast to Coast carrying a backpack containing everything I needed. I enjoyed it for the exercise and I enjoyed it for the mental stimulation.

    At the age of 44, I decided that I needed a bigger challenge. I decided to walk the GR10 (the Pyrenean Way) in France. It was both further (over 500 miles) and tougher (the trail tops out at over 9,000 ft) so I knew that I would need to be fitter than ever before. During the walk, I would face high temperatures as well as the rigours of the walk. I was prepared for everything, and was determined that I would complete it.

    I did complete it. When I got home, I weighed myself and I had lost 23 lbs in weight. Surely, that should equate to super fitness, but it did not. It equated to exhaustion, both physical and mental. As I walked down the pebbled beach at Banyuls sur Mer, I knew that I could not have walked a single day more. Of course, I could have, but metal tiredness is a greater test of will power than is physical tiredness.

    If a footballer was to tell me that he was tired at the end of a long season, my experience in France would click in. I could not tell him that he is paid enough not to be tired, or that he should try working 50 hours a week for a living and see how he feels then. I could not tell him anything because I do not know how tired he gets, either mentally or physically after a 50 game season, because I have never done it. I would have to rely on the people who do these things for a living, who all say that it is true.
     
  19. Sta

    Stahlrost Well-Known Member

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    That's impressive stuff. I've done the Pennine Way 3 times, the Coast to Coast twice, Cleveland Way and Wolds Way, all carrying a tent and camping wild on several nights (although the attractions of country pubs take their toll sometimes).

    If you're into long distance walking you may wish to look at my website www.wildyorkshireway.co.uk. I've done 300 out of the roughly 500 miles and aim to finish it by the end of this summer.
     
  20. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Well-Known Member

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    They don't all say it's true though. I recall an interview with an ex player / manager (his name escapes me) who said it was a modern phenomenon and was a way of justifying the excesses of modern football managers. In a nutshell he was saying that the more message that players are exhausted is repeated the more it is believed and the more it becomes a part of the game.

    I don't know if it's true but I'm just not convinced that tiredness is a reason why we can't compete at summer tournaments.
     

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