With this manager and group of players

Will we ever find a consistent happy medium ?, I know looking on here and the reaction from some in the ground at the final whistle I'm in the minority of one in my opinion, but I thought we defended well yesterday restricting them to long distance shots getting key blocks in giving away corners rather then lumping forward for them to come straight back at us because they've learned how to defend them properly and have the confidence to deal with them correctly, Our keeper never really had to perform heroics to keep us in it, he just did his job making a few routine saves due to the lads in front of him doing a good job, add to that, in the first half we had a lot of the ball and knocked it about well, but the movement up top was poor we never really had options in the final third and didn't trouble them at all until the last minute when their keeper pulled off a world class save, but often it's the other way round look a shambles at the back and dangerous going forward, we're half way through the season and the complete performances are very few and far between

So my question is do you think this squad and management will ever find the answer to being a team capable of being consistently good enough to challenge for the play offs, and if so what sort of time scale do you think we'll be looking at, please try and take the time to explain the reasoning behind your opinion instead of just a one word answer in the form of yes or no

 

Is it a coincidence that Cranie was absent yesterday? I said in pre-season I'd reservations about keeping any of the 'losing mentality' squad from last year.

I've begun to think that our attitude towards recruitment is very unscientific. The approach seems to be to try and keep turning cheap recruits over, hoping that we can a) strike gold and/or b) pinch a saleable asset. It seems there is going to be some wasteage while we travel this road. Lita and Hemmings, for example not having the pace to worry even League One defences (Lita has quite evidently 'gone'). Similarly, we're not going to properly 'build' with loan players who we're unlikely to sign on a permanent basis - although it's difficult to see how we could have managed this season without them.

The defence (without Cranie) may be capable of being formed into a reliable unit (noting what you say about yesterday's performance) - particularly if we can graft more of the youngsters into it.

The midfield has attacking flair, but is lightweight. We won't remotely become challengers until we have more of a ball-winner/hold up player in there.

Up front, Winnall and Jennings look promising. It would be grand if we could get Williams on a more permanent basis. Cole is too good a player for us to make proper use of - and our chances of signing him are nil. Hemmings is too slow, Lita has 'gone' and Trotta wants off back to Italy. So we're still short up there. How good Phenix will turn out to be is anybody's guess.

So I guess my answer is - we'll be lucky just to stay up this season. And we're a long way off having a side which could challenge next year. That will be getting on for 10 years of virtually zero progress since we achieved promotion under Andy Ritchie. What was it about Einstein and madness?

 

Yes (in medium to long term of a 3 year plan)

I didn't, pre the season, and don't 20+ games in expect a deffo play off place this season. We assembled a group of mainly young, hungry, talented, inexperienced lads in a very short period of time very close to the seasons commencement. Saw 15-20 arrive with similar numbers depart. Anyone who, in those circumstances expected an immediate challenge IMHO is only going to be disappointed. Preston, Sheff U, MK, Brizzle, Donnly, Yeovil I all expected to be top 6ish. Some are, some aren't. We're not. Granted were 4-5 places lower than I expected, seen some good, seen some bad. Up and down, inconsistent, scoring for fun, conceding not for fun. Stars emerging that will perform for us, or turn us in a tidy profit(Connor Winnall), some abject disappointments (Lita Brown Treacy). Emergence of youth (Bree Holgate Abbot) is wonderful to see. Some other youth continues to frustrate (RNL Digby). The aforemtioned groups of pros & con outcomes will hopefully see DW use January wisely. He's been backed begore and I think he will be again.

In my eyes were 20odd games into a 150odd plan.
Did I expect it to be sorted after 20 = no
Are we doing better than I expected = no
Should we be doing better at this stage = yes
Did I expect play offs this year = no
Should we expect an improved position/performance between now and April = yes
Should we be challenging for top 6-10 next season = yes
Will I be disappointed if I'm still asking the same questions if DW is still with us 3 seasons on = YES! but let's give us the time, patience required to at least see if it works. 10 managers in 10 years hasn't.

Someone once said. The definition of Insanity = doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome!

 

Any plan in football is limited because it basically involves buying players that you hope gel well and play better than the sum of their parts.

 

Correction 55 games in and a division lower, seems to me like it's not working.

 

No. The rebuild started in the summer.

 

Any manager sacked could always claim that 30 plus games didn't count as they hadn't had chance to rebuild. Ask Neil Warnock.

 

And they'd have a point.

 

And we are 4th bottom of the form table. Relegation form in anybody's book.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I'd like to think, be you a DW fan or otherwise that to be able to state your case/arguement for/against a fair way to do it is to look at it from Aug onwards. Even the previous regime, who'd signed the previous lot of players, coached them for years, managed them at various previous clubs and couldn't get them to perform. So what chance DW from a standing start with the team rock bottom? It's harsh in the extreme to use last years games as part of the '55'.

 

Taking away those games and using just this seasons ought to be enough for those inclined to dig Danny out. Results have been more ***** than any of us expected I would imagine? We haven't put one lengthy good run together all season, but a fair amount of ***** ones. Lost 10 games already (of 22 played). Danny's high profile recruits have offered jack **** in truth, and he's now started referring to us in his interviews as expected 'underdogs/whipping boys'.

So aye, plenty of scope for giving him some hammer, without even referring to last season.



However, you'd have to be very harsh not to appreciate the positive signs and the good things to come out of the first half of the season. We've got a midfielder with double figure goals and assists to his name, in this struggling side. A striker with double figures to his name who hasn't played for weeks. A young midfielder who's stepped up two divisions, played more than regularly and held his own for my money. All recruited by Danny in the summer. They surely balance out the high profile flops (Lita, Treacy).

Not only that, we've seen the debuts of 16 year old James Bree, 17 year olds Mason Holgate, Jack Cowgill and George Smith. Early days for them, but they've shown up well by all accounts and will be all the better for it next season. The more youngsters we introduce now the less external recruiting we require come the summer.

Of course, there are big holes in this team at present. Even with everyone fit and available, I think we certainly lack an older head in midfield, someone nasty who can rally his troops. Without the hustle, bustle and graft of Winnall up front, everyone in front of the back four is a little too nice for my liking. Talented, easy on the eye, but lacking game nous and that comes only with experience. I will never sway from my opinion that releasing Hassell or at least failing to replace him with someone similar was a big **** up on Danny's part. But he'll have had his reasons, whether I agree with them or not. He'd have been ideal for us this season. His knowledge rubbing off on the likes of Berry, Bailey et al. Not to mention the young full backs. As I say, it needn't have been Bobby. Could have been one of any number of older, experienced midfielders/full backs out there. Folk will point to Danny's lack of time last summer to recruit. I buy that. In general. But **** me, it was blatant after the first month of games that we were too soft in the middle and lacked leadership in there. Fingers crossed we fill this gaping hole next month.

We've a few players here who I doubt Danny wants to retain, but, I think he'll be struggling to move them on. Think we all know who they are. At least five names spring to mind. Some money there in wages too, which might affect our own ability to strengthen.


Carrying a small squad, and a small squad where your supposed 'key signings' haven't shown up was always going to be difficult. Once injuries hit, as they have, you're plugging gaps left, right and centre which often results in a lack of cohesion in performances on the pitch. I think we're seeing that a lot right now. The return of Jennings seemed to boost Cole. We win a couple, look a threat out wide at last. Then bang, we lose Cole and it's back to Leroy up top who I'm sorry (and despite Danny's constant praising of him) just doesn't suit this team at all. He's the opposite of Winnall, and not in a good way. Sooner we get him back, and we've a full strength side to select (and with January to strengthen further perhaps), the sooner I expect us to improve sufficiently to steer ourselves closer to the top end rather than the bottom where we precariously reside at present.


Take a look at the table though. The top four (in Premier League style) are more than ten points clear of the rest. They're gone. Fighting it out for two spots. The two clubs though occupying the final two playoff slots? Bradford and the Blunts. Sides we've beaten, when at full strength. One, by outplaying them, with vibrant, attacking football. Possibly my favourite home game this season was that one. And the other, a proper 'Battling Barnsley' away display. Grit, graft and plenty of heart on show. So we've got it in our locker.

Those two sides are still only seven points ahead of us. They're catchable. It's unlikely, and I don't expect it to happen. But it's not impossible. Bradford themselves were where we are now, a few weeks back. But they're back at full strength now and momentum is with them. It's about consistency. In terms of performance levels, but just as key, in terms of the team you're putting out there. I feel for Danny on that score.

We've lost ten ******* games. It's *****. We're having a ***** season. But the Blunts and Bradford have lost seven each. Rochdale in 7th have lost nine. Peterborough, like us have lost ten. They're 10th. There's **** all in this division to separate most of us. Just a good run of consistent form and favourable circumstances.

I trust Danny to get it right. In all probability, it won't be this season. We're about to hit the halfway point and so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we kick on and storm up the table, but I can't see it. But this season was about building blocks, laying down the foundations. Rome wasn't built in a day. The top four clubs weren't either. MK have been here years, as have Swindon. Both Bristol and PNE have had longer stays than expected. Only three of them can go up this time as well.

Patience. Strong stomachs.

I shudda blogged this, sithi.


You Reds.

 

I like reading your stuff Whitey, especially when you have had time to think about it. There is some depth to it, and there is a patience and insight that is hard to find on here. I hope that you will not mind if I address some of the points that you have raised.

As you no doubt remember, I was never as convinced by this team as the majority on here were back prior to the Chesterfield game when the majority thought it had gone wrong. I felt that there were always balance issues. Ball retention slowed down our passing, midfield was full of attacking players but lacked workers off the ball so our defence was exposed, if we played a flat 4 in midfield we were weak down the centre – if we played a diamond there was no width – if we played a front three it was chaos. Our wide players were unfit and our forward line did not work in spite of the goals unless the team focused too much upon attack, because the players were too similar. I said after his first game that I could not see the point to Trotta, when what was needed was a target man. Few agreed at the time, but most do now.

However, comments upon the structure of the team, its modus operandi and the formation it operates within have become redundant because of the horrendous injury list that the manager has had to cope with. The young players have be blooded, not because they were ready, but because there was no-one else. I defended Keith Hill when he lost Jacob Butterfield to long term injury, Danny Drinkwater was transferred from under him and Ricardo Vaz Te was lost to West Ham, at the same time, Perkins was out injured for a month. Results suffered and his critics came down on him like a ton of bricks, but I cannot see what anyone can do when luck deserts them as badly as it deserted Keith Hill and has deserted Danny Wilson. Williams and Winnall are just as important to the team as Butterfield, Drinkwater and Vaz Te were then. Wilson and Hill were both in the middle of big rebuilding programmes. I hope that we do not make the same mistake with Wilson as we did with Keith Hill.

There is no doubt that Wilson has made mistakes, just as Keith Hill did before him and just as every manager in football has since time immemorial. However, the only way to operate a consistent policy for a minimum of 3 years is to stick with the same manager through thick and particularly through thin. That is what patience is all about. Personally, I think that any attempt to join the top six is out of the question this season given the balance issues that I have highlighted and the change in personnel that will be required during January. I would be happy if by the end of the season I was seeing signs of a balanced team that could defend and attack with equal comfort and which had turned the corner in terms of consistently good performances. I am absolutely certain that my recipe for the turnaround would be much different to yours and that I have very different opinions about the individual players to yourself, or indeed to most of the other contributors to this blog. Thank goodness the management of our football club is not conducted by committee otherwise we would still be picking the team for the first game by the end of the season. Each team reflects the individual opinions and preferences of the coach who pick it. And that surely is the point. No coach can have the same mix of opinions and preferences as his predecessor and that is why changing the manager is so expensive. Because it is not just the cost of paying off the manager, not just the cost of paying off his management team, it is also the cost of paying off all the players he does not fancy and the cost of replacing them…. And the cost of doing it all again in less than 12 months’ time.

Your post is essentially one that calls for patience, and whilst I suspect our football philosophies are entirely different, your call for patience is one that I can get behind wholeheartedly.

 

Some good reading in this thread

 

Personally I think this squad with a couple of additions can be capable of getting us to where I think we should be challenging by the end of next year.

In my opinion the management we have do not have the ability nor the vision, and will hold us back. With our top 6 budget as Ben constantly told us we had over the summer I would have expected more. Not promotion, maybe not even play offs - but certainly better than the performances in general I have witnessed.

We are crying out for a defensive midfielder. We have been since day one. We have been, dare I say it, since Dawson left. Yet we signed striker after striker to solve a problem we didn't have.

Danny's transfer policy since day 1 has been nothing short of dreadful bar Hourihane and Winnall. He signed 8 players in January, all bar one an absolute failure. He's signed an absolute boat load in the summer, and all bar two haven't pulled up any trees (I know some will argue Im being harsh on berry).

I just didn't think Wilson was at the time or is the right choice for us moving forward - as much as I agree constantly sacking manager after manager is the wrong route to go down.

Final note - I keep seeing we are in a 'transition'. Well correct me if Im wrong, but aren't up to the limit of our wage cap based on turnover? Where is the next round of 'transitional' spend coming from when our crowds are dropping and income will be lower next year with less season ticket sales after a potential bottom half finish?

 

Almost on par wi owt ive ever posted, but to be ont safe ivedeleted yours incase I look a bit ficker!

Spot on btw! Apart from the Whitey bit. Let thisen darn theer fella.

 

Could somebody summarise this post for me, I haven't got a spare four hours to read it.

 

Keep DW for 3 yrs min. Have patience. Don't be cnuts.

 

That sounds like a cracking plan to me. I agree with every word.

 

I have to admit you saw Trotta for what he was from day one. His debut excited me. I assumed he had more in his locker. But he hasn't worked as hard in any game since as he did on that day. I think he's talented, but like Lita, not a good fit for this BFC side. However, he's still here despite contrary reports and if Danny rates him, then who are we to argue?

To be fair, I don't disagree with anything you've said above. I agree with it all, pretty much.

We lack - in my opinion - that holding midfielder with experience, and a nasty streak. A winner/leader. We also lack a true, out and out right winger. You could play Jennings there, but then you've no left winger and to be honest, he's not really one for beating his man on the outside and putting a cross in. His main party piece is to come inside onto his strong right foot. The fact is, Treacy hasn't joined the party, at all. And Noble-Lazarus has been cast aside. Also, I assume we've no young wingers coming through else we'd have seen em I'm sure. The new lad Williams looks a very attack minded right back, and perhaps Danny might look to push him further forward? I love Luke Berry, and he's done marvelously for me considering he's not once played in the role he operated in for Cambridge, which was an offensive midfielder.

Winnall, Cole and Hemmings are all good enough for me. We need a bit of muscle, a bit of a target up there. We lack that. I don't believe Trotta is that man. Is Rhys Oates? And what about Mike Phenix?

We've three very able centre halves. We're not flush with proper full backs, but the three or four kids have handled themselves brilliantly and I am honest enough to say that Danny merely blooding these lads is enough for me. It's what I asked for in the summer. He's been forced into it to be honest, but still, it makes me proud to see 17 year old kids going to PNE and not conceding from open play. 21 year old keeper int net too.


I'm uber patient. So long as I can see signs of progress. I am doing.

I've seen bad things also. I've doubts and criticisms for Danny. Natural is that though.

But aye, I'm a fully paid up happy clapper. Who misses Sam Winnall incredibly.

 

When most posters begin to assemble a dream team, they simply fill in the gaps around the players they see as an established base. My problem with this method is that one of the players who would appear in most teams is the player who I see as a huge issue for the balance of the team. Connor Hourihane is that player. There is no doubt that he contributes more going forward than any other player, and yet his lack of work ethic when out of possession, his lack of a real feel for the defensive side of the mid-field game and his poor tackling are a huge problem for us defensively. For most contributors on here, his positive contribution when we are in possession means that he is exempt from criticism when we are out of possession, but for me, he is the biggest issue when talking about the balance of the team. If we intend to build a team around him that is capable of being promoted, then his playing position on the field is the first problem that has to be solved. If this conundrum cannot be solved he should be sold and the cash generated from the sale used in team building.

Solving the problem of Hourihane will give us the system for the rest of the team. To be honest, I do not know what that system will be until I can clearly see how Hourihane should be used, but what I am sure of is that playing him on the left of midfield is not working, just as playing Berry on the right side of midfield is not working. As you know, I have likened the Hourihane problem that faces Danny Wilson to the Butterfield problem that faced Keith Hill when he first came to the club. Keith Hill solved the problem by playing Jacob at the head of midfield in a 4-4-1-1 system and there is a temptation to try to solve the Hourihane problem in exactly the same way. However, that will give us another problem, because I do not think that Winnall can fit into that system as the target man. He is just not strong enough to control the ball and hold off the central defenders until support arrives. A second problem is that we do not currently seem to have the type of quick, workaholic winger to play in that system.

Given the problem of solving the balance problem created by Hourihane using 4-4-1-1, is there any other system that might offer us a better solution. I have not seen Williams yet, but just as I speculated before Trotta arrived on the qualities I thought ideal for a new forward recruit, I will speculate on the qualities that I feel that we need in a new right back. In the way that the modern game is played, the full back position is virtually an additional midfield player. He must have a good engine, he must be an excellent passer and of course he must be able to defend. A full back with all of these qualities, with special emphasis on the good engine can become a wing back. In my view, we have three central defenders who can play the wing back system, two markers and Cranie to read the game and pass the ball out of defence. The system also gives the team two forwards, although we still need a target man to pair with Winnall and Cole becomes no more than an impact substitute, which in my view is a shame. Unfortunately, the system requires 3 workaholic passers in central midfield, and that is where it all falls down in my opinion.

To summarise, I cannot see how the balance issue can be solved and for all his positive qualities, I believe that Hourihane is the problem at the core of the issue. Thank goodness that I am not manager eh.