WTF.....

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Tekkytyke, Oct 19, 2022.

  1. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2005
    Messages:
    7,378
    Likes Received:
    4,657
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Italy
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
  2. Tyke The Tree-Frog

    Tyke The Tree-Frog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    11,424
    Likes Received:
    14,553
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Barnsley
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    North Yorks Red likes this.
  3. S74 Red

    S74 Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2021
    Messages:
    2,123
    Likes Received:
    3,154
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hoyland
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    This can’t be right? There must be something missing from this story. Surely?
     
  4. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    12,288
    Likes Received:
    12,104
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Interesting academic case!

    'Common sense' might suggest that the defendant (having pleaded guilty) now stands convicted of very serious allegations (multiple offences involving amongst other things, penetration of an under-13). Barring wholly exceptional circumstances (and the reports do not mention any such) he must be expecting a very substantial custodial sentence. 'Common sense' might suggest that allowing him to go abroad could create an obvious risk that he might fail to surrender for sentencing, or that (having nothing further to lose) might commit further offences whilst abroad and beyond UK jurisdiction, and that he ought therefore to be remanded in custody, or at the very least be subject to stringent bail conditions preventing him from fleeing the UK.

    However, that is not what the Bail Act permits. To withold bail, one of the exceptions to the right to bail contained in the Bail Act must be found by the Court. Clearly sentencing could not take place on the day (pre-sentence reports; possibly psychiatric reports; possible consideration of victim impact and any potential compensation?) He appeared at court in answer to bail, presumably has no previous convictions for absconding, and presumably has committed no further offences whilst on bail. Case precedent does not support the withdrawal of bail in such circumstances, so far as I can recall. The Judge would therefore have to take the view that the mere fact of his conviction would make absconding or further offences more likely. That assumption would then presumably have to apply in every case of this type. That is not what the law says, hence Mr Thompson has been re-admitted to bail.

    Don't anyone make the mistake of thinking that I am in any way justifying the Judge's decision. I'm simply trying to understand how the decision may have been reached. And DR's assertion above that there will be much further detail that has not been reported is correct. There is always more to it.

    Interested to hear the further views of my learned friends!
     
  5. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2005
    Messages:
    7,378
    Likes Received:
    4,657
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Italy
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    As ever, a good analytical post from you.
    The complexity of English Law -both Criminal and Civil .is baffling at times to most of us and , as you say, occasionally appears to conflict with common sense and 'natural justice'. However , for all its weaknesses and faults it is still, by and large, the best system we currently have, and maintains a level of independence from Government interference, in spite of efforts to the contrary in recent times, certainly compared to countries like the USA and what many people may think,
     
  6. Gimson&theBarnsleys

    Gimson&theBarnsleys Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2005
    Messages:
    7,763
    Likes Received:
    6,376
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    The airline and hotel should refuse to accept him.
     
    arabian_ian likes this.
  7. Skinner

    Skinner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2018
    Messages:
    3,040
    Likes Received:
    3,851
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Surprised Greece will allow him in
     
    Hooky feller likes this.
  8. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    43,698
    Likes Received:
    32,573
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On Sofa
    Style:
    Barnsley
    I've probably gained this 'knowledge' through watching TV, but I was under the impression that granting bail came with certain conditions and those conditions tended to focus on living and travel arrangements. As in the accused (now convicted) must continue living or begin living at a specific address and must remain within a certain area which is usually their home town but is extended if work requires it.
     
  9. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    12,288
    Likes Received:
    12,104
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    The basic starting principle is that every defendant is entitled to unconditional bail. The prosecution can make representations that bail should be withheld if one or more of the exceptions to the right to bail are made out. They are to be found in the Bail Act, and typically include where there are reasonable grounds to believe that the defendant would fail to surrender in answer to bail or would commit further offences. The court, if finding the exception(s) made out may remand the defendant in custody. Alternatively, if it believes that the concerns can be addressed by the imposition of conditions it may grant conditional bail. Arrest for breach of bail conditions normally constitutes an extra ground for a remand in custody.
     
    John Peachy likes this.
  10. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    9,327
    Likes Received:
    8,107
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    The interface between business and technology
    Location:
    Brampton by the Sea
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    IIRC next year the requirement for a "visa" comes in where they will start checking criminal records - although this might just be for Schengen. I say visa, there is a name for it, but its early and really its similar to the visa waiver scheme that the USA has had for years.
     
    Skinner likes this.
  11. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2005
    Messages:
    7,378
    Likes Received:
    4,657
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Italy
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    I think you refer to ETIAS (biometric data) applicable to travel entry to EU from outside the EU. CVosts 7 euros for 3 years. However it has been put back again until Nov 2023.
     
  12. arabian_ian

    arabian_ian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    14,397
    Likes Received:
    16,397
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Broughty Ferry
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    This is just taking the pi55.
     
    Redhelen likes this.
  13. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Messages:
    17,567
    Likes Received:
    17,317
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    The littlest hobo
    Location:
    Leeds, United Kingdom
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)

    Thanks for the well informed post

    Instead of clearing up serious anomalies like this it appears former members of the government were more focussed on sending asylum seekers to Rwanda, i.e Patel, Braverman, Javid, Rudd, etc...

    The Bail Act was passed in 1976, but no ****** has looked at it. A judge cannot overturn statute law.
     
    Redhelen likes this.
  14. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    12,288
    Likes Received:
    12,104
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I see that Major Dan has waded into the controversy on the front page of the Chronicle. The Good Major says he will raise the matter with the CPS and the Attorney General. "I find it very difficult to understand how he was not deemed a serious threat to the public and remanded in custody." If only he'd read my post, above! His gripe should not be with the Court, who simply applied the existing law, but with the wording of the Bail Act itself, which hitherto appears to have stood the test of time!
     

Share This Page