Rant of the day....Socialism......

You posted an intentionally provocative post - you can’t seriously question some of the responses you’ve had. I don’t see need for personal abuse - though I, and you, cannot be surprised. You went fishing for it, you knew very well what you were doing.

Lack of intelligence? Maybe. Depends how you define it.

You seem to deem your level of education and inflated sense of importance to mean you are more intelligent. Yet you don’t know anyone else’s level of education, and aren’t more qualified to have an opinion than anyone else. The responses, whilst I don’t condone some of them, are indicative of anger at your inflammatory post, rather than intelligence or lack thereof.

I’d say wind your neck in, but you won’t.

Your OP was about ‘the problem with’.

The bigger ‘problem’ is people like you, who seem to think they are superior beings and better - or at least more right - than other people.

Your assertion that socialists are a bunch of ne’er do wells, who do nothing to improve themselves - this isn’t just crass, it’s laughable. All it does is highlight the fact that you look down on people and assume them to be inferior.

 

Absolutely spot on ^^

 

Nicely put.
But Redstar has massively let the side down.

 

(Compassionate Capitalism)

Disagree! The Nordic countries are more akin to that than the oft quoted Socialist label.

 

Fishing? No I posted something to stimulate debate and clearly some e.g. Redstar do lack intelligence however you choose to define it as he is far more provocative than anything I post and is incapable of sensible discussion.
Actually, I don't have an inflated sense of importance...I did not claim my opinions- that is what they are- are correct. However my opinion is a good as the next persons. that said I have little respect for people who cannot engage in debate without resorting to insults, personal abuse and invective.
Oh and my post was aimed at a very small number of people and not ALL Socialists (whatever they are) who constantly take the high moral ground but never come up with solutions just complain and whinge about the state of things.

 

I'm a Socialist, but don't pillory capitalists per se. Two of my closest friends are self made millionaires,
although you wouldn't know it, as they don't flaunt it. They are down to earth hard working lads, who if
they can, like to make other folk round them happy.

My distaste is for rich politicians like Heseltine, Lawson, or from today's lot, Johnson Soames et al.
All " excuse me, who am I talking down to ", types with self interest at the very core of their being.
Even though they espoused it, although I could be wrong, they appear not to care too much for anyone but themselves
and appear to exhibit a misplaced air of superiority.

 

I wouldn't class Heseltine in with Lawson. Tarzan fought for and a lot of good for Liverpool when his colleagues and boss wanted to leave it to rot in the 1980s. I would say that he (and Ken Clarke and a few others) are more of the europhilic, moderate Tories that are being ousted from the party by the eurosceptic hard right.

 

Heseltine closed the last few pits in Barnsley that had survived up to his watch .
Houghton , Grimethorpe 1993, Goldthorpe 1994.
This despite every govt dept, charities and expert bodies telling them that not only killing the remaining industry in the region but that nothing was in line to replace them(still the case today ) but it would send the whole Barnsley, Rotherham and Dearne Valley into depression and he closed them anyway.

 

There was no sensible discussion from the ill informed biased attacking initial post to be had .
You were posting for bites and likeminded insults and that’s what you got (albeit more than you bargained for or maybe not )
It’s not the first time you’ve posted such threads so you do have form .
There’s other posters who don’t necessarily agree with labour, socialism etc but put their views in a reasoned argument without reverting to the insults you persist in so your reaping what you sow imo.
Almost every line you have contradicted yourself with your views which leads me to believe their prejudiced rather than thought out beliefs .

 

So to put it another way ---- As Tom Robinson sang --
Don't you worry i'm alright Jack we've never had it so good.
Plenty of Grouse in the Country House we're eating as we should. etc.etc.etc.

By the way new Library coming on in tarn can't wait to go and read all George Orwell's books in new surroundings!
Homage to Catalonia is a particular favourite of mine!

 

I was part of the Major Energy User Councils Coal group delegation that included Lord Ezra, NUM backed MP's and leading representatives from the Coalfield Communities Action group. When they met Heseltine and Co in Parliament to discuss the privation that the closure of mines would have on local Colliery communities, Heseltine just coldly stared at them and repeatedly said, " the Market will decide, repeat the Market will decide." They reckon he came over as an impassive person, who did not care one jot for the working class.

The Coal group met regularly to try to think of innovative ways to regenerate our local communities. At one session I
sat with Sir Jack Smart a leading light in the fight for Coal and former Barnsley MP, Mick Clapham and some South
Yorkshire Councillors from various LA's in our region.They were saying, that on one of their visits to put the case for Coal, the only empathy they ever detected, had come from either Jim Prior or Francis Pym. All the others were market driven and if we had to import coal from Columbia, Russia et al, so be it.

At one meeting during the strike in 85, they apparently found it really funny when one of their number claimed that the Coal used to heat the NUM HQ in Barnsley has been mined in Nottinghamshire and shipped to a landsale point somewhere in South Yorkshire. They had a pathological hatred of Arthur Scargill and anyone associated with him, so were never truly receptive to the groups arguements that coal had a role to play in the energy mix. If they could install fluorised beds to burn it cleanly it still could be used to generate electricity, but the trend appears to be towards nuclear generation in the future.

 

What utter *******, simplistic brainless tripe.

 

Ah! one of the "usual suspects"!
Try reading the OP line by line and respond with an analytical rebuttal rather instantly dismissing what you clearly disagree with.

 

There’s no point. You fail to see how you belittle and abuse people and then excuse it as starting a debate. I don’t think you are a very nice person, that’s my analytical view of the situation. Good bye.

 

Could you please list the usernames of these posters with a brief timeline of their life choices and circumstances which prompted you to come to this opinion? Without that, it would appear that you are just belittling and insulting people without any actual knowledge, whilst also preventing them from having a chance to defend themselves as they cannot be sure it is them who you are actually referring to.

 

I Disagree your disagreement

Compassion and Capitalism are:

Diametrically opposites like left and right or yes and no

Socialism gives you the NHS
Capitalism gives you 130k deaths with Austerity

Socialism gives you safeguards like the minimum wage
Capitalism gives you a race to the bottom with blatant disregard, even violation of human rights.

How can you possibly (a) make the statement in the first place and (b) secondly defend it?

Sorry I'm wrong there. You can only make the statement if your (unearned) wealth puts you in such a position of strength as to be able to (comfortably) withstand any prolonged absence of being able to earn a living.

 

You make a post that's nothing more than you parroting decades old tropes about Socialism and *you* want an analytical rebuttal?

lolz

 

Tekktyke's comments have produced the usual tribal arguments, although to my mind a mixed economy is the way to go - preserving enterprise while safeguarding certain vital services through public ownership. But the points made around the Tories' treatment of the mining areas set me thinking. Is Barnsley better off for the end of it's large-scale reliance on the coal industry? It must surely have diversified, and is mining coal a good way to earn a living, given the dangerous and dirty conditions and the longer term health issues?

This article from last year suggests average earnings in Barnsley are towards the bottom end, although it notes that the level of educational attainment is also towards the lower end. And Barnsley still appears to come out above places such as Doncaster and Huddersfield.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43729508

I wonder if Barnsley's average earnings figure is higher or lower (comparative to other areas) than it would have been at the height of the coal-producing years.

The council wants more housing and growth (and presumably more council tax revenue). But that necessitates yet more housing development, and lots of gyratories! And then what about regional underfunding and the Northern Poorhouse? (Which Mr Osborne appears to support!)

My head hurts!​

 

Problem was/still is Mate, Barnsley wasn’t given chance to diversify and become lesser and lesser reliant on the coal Industry. Many ex-steel workers became miners when their industry was similarly butchered by the Tories. The closures were hardly piecemeal, they were relatively whole-scale in a short space of time. Miners were training/ learning other trades/ skills which meant a flooding of availability in the local jobs markets. Other reliant businesses were suddenly missing a very large customer. EU monies ( eventually) provided some relief, ( but not going into that particular debate now) The systematic butchering of the mining industry was at best Callous and vindictive, we’ve all seen what it is at it’s worst.

 

Yep - totally get that. And I think the same attitude is being exhibited towards Brexit. A no deal will undoubtedly cause massive disruption but probably not to it's well-heeled most vehement advocates. It will be devil take the rest - sink or swim.