Corbyn and a 'No Confidence' motion

Would play straight into Johnson's hands. Even if he won, and even if the opposition parties agreed Corbyn could lead a new interim government, Boris wouldn't resign. An election would follow and we would leave on no deal in the meantime.

Of course a no deal Brexit which he could blame on the Tories, and which wouldn't hinder any future government led by him returning many industries to state control might suit Corbyn down to the ground.

 

Feels like a no-win situation for anyone who thinks Brexit will be a disaster.

 

I do not usually have a lot of time for Corbyn, but according to the BBC headline, he has it exactly right. Boris Johnson is on his way to exchanging a EU dominated future for a US dominated one. Who would you rather have in charge of our futures, a faceless EU or Trump?

 

Trump 100%

 

He gets a lot of things right. But then most people’s pre conceived opinion of him doesn’t let them see it or appreciate it. You are right, If anyone thinks Donald trump is doing us a favour then I really don’t know what to say to them, I’d question their sanity for a start!

 

The EU will be forever...Trump will be gone soon, possibly next year, five years at most.

 

EU every time. We have an equal voice there. Compared to Trump, being 'faceless' is a virtue, so far as I can see.

 

Do you like his policies then?

 

It’s not going to happen as Swinson is a Tory quisling who enabled the chuffing referendum in the first place by propping Cameron up .

 

It appears common sense has prevailed and they are pursuing a legislative intervention rather than a no confidence vote.

 

The best way ahead IMO

 

Doesn’t legislating against no deal kill any ounce of leverage the UK has in negotiations?

 

Good God. I hope you are joking. I really do.

 

Not at all. Modern negotiations (despite the bluster), are about getting the best deal for both parties - this is best achieving by being honest with each other and deciding what are your priorities and what you are willing to sacrifice to get them. That gives you a win-win. Threatening something that will harm both sides unless you win is likely to harden opposition and attitudes towards you.

The reason that it is such a disaster (from our side), is that our government has yet to decide what they want, and not being honest about the sacrifices that are needed to achieve them.

Same with Trump and China - China have framed it as a fight where everyone suffers (and citizens are girding their loins for the hit to them), while Trump framed it as making the Chinese pay - now that the tariffs are biting the Americans that pay them, he is losing popularity in the industries affect - which is why he had to give subsidies to the farmers and the latest tariffs are not kicking in until December (after Christmas orders have arrived).

 

But isn’t the whole idea of Brexit about responding to hardened attitudes that want an action based on principle even if that will harm both sides?

Where is the win-win in Brexit?

 

There simply isn’t one. That’s what makes this whole sh1tshow even more depressing. Brexit voters..... ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?

 

A no deal Brexit will be damaging to the EU as well as the UK. It is our only real negotiating chip. We're infinitely more likely to get concessions if the EU are scared that we will press ahead with a no deal Brexit. Whether you agree or disagree with Corbyn trying to block a no deal Brexit, its obvious that these meetings are weakening our bargaining position.

I wouldn't be surprised if, privately, the last thing Boris wanted was a no deal Brexit, and he has no intention of taking us out of the EU without a deal. Its possible this is just an elaborate façade purely to negotiate a better deal.

 

Boris didn’t even want to leave remember. What are these concessions you talk about though? Are they suddenly going to throw the republic of Ireland under the bus and put a border up?

Forget about idiots going on about us buying German cars and french cheese and they need us as much as we need them etc. The border is the sticking point, everything else will get sorted eventually, with a deal that’s worse than than the one we’ve already got.

 

My guess is that Johnson is hoping for a move on the EU's position that gives him enough wiggle room to bring May's deal back to Parliament. Germany's impending recession is putting pressure on Merkel and her comments have been noticeably less negative recently.
It only failed by 58 votes last time, but Stephen Kinnock said last week that had he known it could result in no deal, he would have voted in favour of it. He also said there are 50 Labour MP's prepared to vote in favour if it were to be presented again.
I haven't the figures to hand but I think there was half a dozen Labour MP's voted yes last time out...if Kinnock is right another reading could pass it by 30 to 40 odd votes.

 

So we could end up with a deal so bad nobody wants it to prevent no deal that nobody (except the most extreme who will benefit) wants........tell me again why we are leaving and how we will benefit

If we do leave with no deal then the politicians involved have failed in their jobs and should suffer the consequences.