All this trust in Labour and the NHS

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Xerxes, May 18, 2017.

  1. Did you feel safer before the Good Friday agreement then?
     
    BFC Dave likes this.
  2. Aye, that disastrous New Labour 13 years of power, introduction of minimum wage, record levels of performance in the NHS, increased investment in areas like Barnsley etc. What a disaster Tony Blair was.

    Anyone that think a left wing Labour party will get in to power is mental - it's not happened for over 40 years & it's especially never going to happen with the rise of SNP etc.

    I love Corbyn's policies but there's absolutely f.ck all realism or recognition that England is a Conservative country which requires the party in power to be a centrist one.
     
    BFC Dave likes this.
  3. Yes new labour that invented the layabout scrounger and claimant that see it as a breach of their human rights to have to work like the rest of us fucking idiots. Anybody know a human rights lawyer or are they all busy building cases against our servicemen for the Iraq war they shouldn't have been in?
     
  4. You are probably right, but the problem is if you just become a "Tory Lite" party, eventually the reason to exist becomes unclear.
    New Labour went way of the rails, most importantly giving George W the backing he needed to invade Iraq & destabilise the whole of the middle east, leading to the migrant crisis that has produced the nationalist uprising. Tony Blair should be standing trial for war crimes,
    I as a Labour Party member am not going to defend his actions after he caused the likes of Clare Short & Robin Cook to resign, who like JC were right about the "war on terror". What a great peace dividend we are enjoying from kicking out Saddam.

    If the middle ground is such a good place to stand at the moment, why are the Lib Dem's heading for possibly a worse result than 2015?
    The Labour Party is in a process of renewal. The reason why this election has been called is that the Tories recognised that & wanted to take advantage, despite the pledge to run a full term.

    The one thing this country has needed for years is electoral reform & I'm disappointed JC & Labour haven't got behind this.
    You would then have a more concensual government, like France is in the process of forming, with strong voices on the left & right.

    The only way to stop the total demise of health & social care at this election is to vote Labour.
     
  5. I like to debate these things sensibly normally but unfortunately this is just unadulterated Daily Mail bollocks.
     
    dartonpete likes this.

  6. He has a point only under new Labour could you be better off in a family who didn't work than one that did. I liked the one were they brought in the childcare for unemployed family's and working ones paid through the nose.
     
  7. For arguments sake I don't read any newspapers, I've generally got the impression about the layabout scrounger by working on social housing during new labours tenure and seeing for myself that the general needy don't get the help they need whilst the majority completely take the piss.
     
  8. Actually Thatcher invented the benefits culture by decimating industry and flogging council houses.
     
  9. That was never true except in tbe world of the Daily Mail. 2003-2012 I worked in benefits as a fraud investigator and then a fraud manager. By and large the people I dealt with and prosecuted were needy not greedy. Most benefits are claimed by people either in work or in retirement not tge unemployed. The benefits system throughout the time I worked in it was specifically designed to make it impossible to be better out of work than in work. The reason the benefits bill has exploded was the selling and non replacement of council housing that has pushed people into expensive private rental properties a particular problem in the south which have massively inflated the benefits bill. The only way to reduce it is to either introduce rent capping or to build more social housing.
     
    NorthantsRed and BBBFC like this.
  10. The world of daily mail?
    What about the worlds of wombwell, low edges, herringthorpe, armley, pittsmoor and two estates in Scunthorpe?
    These families would openly take the piss out of you for working in their houses then paying your tax for their beer tokens.
     
  11. I know we don't let truth get in the way in this post truth world but the Dwps own figures show that around 80 percent of the benefits bill is spent on those in work and pensioners they also admit far more is left unclaimed than claimed fraudently.
     
  12. These programmes on TV don't help as they highlight the extremes for great TV, but anyone who has had the misfortune to be unemployed, would tell you completely different. I was on the sick after a triple heart by-pass & the pressure I was put under to go back to work was ridiculous. Late payments, stopping payments for no reason & then going for a medical which I had already passed by attending was worse than the operation itself. It is a nightmare, one I hope never to have to repeat.
     
  13. Probably as a result of the old Tories closing down industries, increasing unemployment and strangling investment to the north
     

  14. It's always going to be more claimed for pensions and working people with tax credits in place. What about the folk who churned kids out with no intention of supporting them by working. Or the people who were too "sick" to work but really just didn't want it every area/estate has them. They never had it so good under blair and it was a piss take on working people.
     
  15. Uh
    You believe the press too much. Of course there is the occasional piss take. in terms of churning kids out. In a decade of working in benefits I dealt with 3 cases like that.

    In terms of sickness the late Thatcher administration then Major conspired to manipulate unemployment figures by registering fit people as sick. By mid Blair there was a recognition of this but it was ingrained and very difficult to overcome. It went far too late by late Blair. One of the claimants I dealt with who had been diagnosed with less than 6 months to live was thrown off benefits as being got to work.
     
  16. The thing is, if it has to be one or the other (which people seem to see it as polar opposites with Labour saying free money for everyone and Tory saying die, die die!) then I'd rather people who aren't entitled to it get it, than people who need it have to try and survive without. One causes debt, the other causes deaths.

    *Disclaimer, I don't believe Labour are saying free money for everyone or that there's as many people falsely claiming as is touted about but I was going for the extremes as people tend to do. I do believe the Tory cuts are causing deaths.
     
  17. But it shouldn't be one or the other should it and that's why none of these frauds are worth voting for
     
  18. What should it be then? What would you vote for?
     
  19. Set up your own party then. Or campaign for a fairer voting system. If you do nothing, then you are as bad as the people you criticise.

    The truth is there is a simple choice as it stands. In that respect it is like the 1970's...
    The middle ground is no more & the Labour Party is back to traditional values to some extent, but with a more modern view on them, as I see it.
    The Tory Party too has moved away from the Liberal, Centrist, pro European, free market ground of Cameron, to more of a control minded right wing, isolationist, but also interventionist approach that May is proposing, but is a little "wooly" about the details. "Need to know basis", would be better than "Strong & Stable".
     
  20. Then you get a Karen Matthews with seven kids to five Dads. It is an open goal for the press and working people who will assume that this is the norm and not the exception
     

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