Antisemitism

Talk about see no evil, hear no evil. This thread underlines why this forum is not the place for political discussion. Everything is blamed on the 'right wing media' while there are currently numerous ongoing complaints from members of the Labour party including current and ex MPs. But of course they are all Blairites therefore full of **** and lying through their Tory light teeth.

I listen to an independent radio station (LBC) and even the left leaning presenters are very critical of the issues in the Labour Party at the minute, the way they are being dealt with internally and the leadership (or lack of) from Corbyn. And yes for balance they are also critical of the Tory Party.

There is an ongoing Equality and Human Rights Commission investigation into the allegations of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party. Only one other party has been investigated by the Equality and Human Rights Commission (no prizes for guessing who) so they clearly feel there is enough evidence to investigate.

I hardly ever read the 'right wing' media so I am not influenced by it (although it appears from reading this forum that only those of a left leaning view are not influenced by the press). A simple Google search can provide as many independent examples as anyone would want to see to confirm that there is a problem (or to ignore all the evidence if that suits you). Here are a select few.

•Corbyn was the chair of an organization that participated in the antisemitic Quds Day.

•Corbyn has called the antisemitic terrorist organisation Hamas "his friends".

•Corbyn was a member of multiple antisemitic facebook groups (according to him, he didn't know about this).

•Corbyn defended an antisemitic mural (he says this was a mistake).

•The vice-chair of Momentum claimed that Jews were the financiers of the slave trade and was only briefly suspended. She also questioned if there are workable antisemitism definitions and why Jewish schools need security.

•Naz Shah approved of an image that can be interpreted as questioning Israels right to exist (criticism of Israel is not necessarily antisemitic; applying double standards, demonization, or delegitimization of Israel is; see eg 3d test of antisemitism). She also likened Israel to Nazi Germany and said that "the Jews are rallying", and shared pro-Hamas tweets. Shah was suspended, but later reinstated. She now regrets these incidents and agrees that they were antisemitic.

•Ken Livingstone said that Jews will not vote for Labour because they are rich, said that Hitler supported Zionism, etc. Labour did not see the antisemitism. He was suspended, but not expelled.

•Labour provided a platform to Miko Peled, who thinks that "the Holocaust should be open to debate". At the same event, delegates proposed to expel Jews who are not for the destruction of Israel from the party.

•While Labour adopted the IHRA definition on antisemitism, they removed examples. They also say that accusations of dual loyalty - a classic antisemitic canard - is not antisemitic.

•The head of Labour's dispute panel defended a Holocaust denier.

•Local council candidates urged others to "question the Holocaust" and "Rothschilds Jewish mafia", and posted other Rothschild conspiracy theories.

•Corbyn praised Sheikh Raed Salah, who has previously engaged in blood libel. A member who discussed the "Jewish Question" was expelled, then re-admitted, and only then finally expelled. Another member talked about Jews having "big noses". Oxford's Labour club members shouted "filthy Zionist" at a Jewish student. Corbyn backed a group of a Holocaust denier.

•A Labour candidate denied the Holocaust.

•A council member shared an antisemitic video. No action was taken against him.

•Corbyn linked a massacre to Israel without any evidence.

•A Labour councillor called Hitler "the greatest man in history".

•Labour still has 200 open cases of alleged antisemitic conduct.

 

“Over the coming months, the party will produce educational materials on a number of specific forms of racism and bigotry. Our first materials are on antisemitism, recognising that anti-Jewish bigotry has reared its head in our movement. Hatred towards Jewish people is rising in many parts of the world. Our party is not immune from that poison – and we must drive it out from our movement.”

The party must face up to the unsettling truth that “a small number of Labour members hold antisemitic views and a larger number don’t recognise antisemitic stereotypes and conspiracy theories”.

Jeremy Corbyn
22 July 2019

 

No it isn't and only a moron would believe this. You can criticise Israel all you want - many Jews do. What you can't do is say anything anti-Semitic and for good reason. The problem is that there are a lot of people, including those in power who are too stupid (or just plain racist) to know the difference. Yaxley Lennon holds vile views but so do those with anti-Semitic views.

 

Thanks for all this Mario, although I was simply asking why is being critical of a nations policies and actions classed as racist?.

Can anyone point out any other instance where condemnation of a countries policies and actions have resulted in that country crying out that the criticism equates to racism?

 

That’s very, true too many clamouring for positions .
I hope Tom Watson is rewarded appropriately for this in any election he cares to partake in .
All party’s have their difficulties and the Torys is poisonous at the minute and their press barons are having to work overtime to keep as much as they can out of the domain and shift it onto others .
Whatever happened to good old fashioned politics where manifestos decided outcomes.

 

No people criticising Israel get called antisemitic. The people defending the senators in America while criticising Corbyn are th best. They are both accused by the far right of the same thing.

 

There are a lot of straws being grasped at there while our current govt deports and imprisons people because of the colour of their skin but oh aye that’s not as important as someone liking a Facebook post.

 

https://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Antisemitism-Barometer-2017.pdf

Of course studies into AS show it is far more widespread in the Conservative party but facts are the last thing the Right wing press care about.

 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics...ms-aoc-omar-tlaib-pressley-said-evil-jews.amp

It's pretty much copy and paste in the states with all this anti semitism malarkey .

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-antisemitism-protest-idUSKCN1Q822X

France too . I'm starting to sense a pattern emerging . If you reside on the left of politics and deemed a threat to established authorities ; be that right wing or centrist liberals your going to have this slur slung at you .

 

The Labour Party is dead which is why these vile shitehawks can do what they want

 

That’s a very detailed response. I’d love to a similar view of the conservatives islamaphobia. I wonder why it doesn’t get talked about as much. For the avoidance of doubt racism of any form must be called out, dealt with and not be repeated or tolerated, it’s wrong.

The view from a recent yougov poll is interesting with regards labour (a very real threat) and other parties

“For two years, more than 4 in 5 British Jews have considered the Labour Party to be harbouring antisemites in its ranks. The level of criticism of the Labour Party stood out starkly against that levelled at other parties, however, over 40% of British Jews also consistently considered the UK Independence Party and the Green Party to be deficient in tackling antisemites in their ranks. Similarly, over 30% consistently criticised the Liberal Democrat Party and the Scottish National Party.
Although the number of British Jews criticising the Conservative Party’s handling of antisemitism rose in 2017, it was the only party to be considered to be doing enough by more than 80% of British Jews. The fact that only one of the country’s major political parties was in this category should be a cause for major concern about the health of British politics.
Only 4% of British Jews feel that no UK political parties tolerate antisemitism.

By comparing these responses with the data from the polls of the British population that we commissioned YouGov to undertake, we can pinpoint the problem. The YouGov data shows, for example, that Labour Party supporters are less likely to be antisemitic than other voters, so the cause of British Jews’ discontentment with the Labour Party must be the way that it has very publicly failed to robustly deal with the antisemites in its ranks. This means that the Labour Party has fallen out of step with its core supporters, who are generally less likely to hold antisemitic beliefs

 

It's not. The end.

I don't like the policies of Israel. If you follow Judaism it has as much relevance to me as whether you're wearing jeans, trousers or a skirt. None. You're just a person and I'll take you as you come. And I don't like the policies of my current government either, but that has no relevance to my views of people who live and vote in the UK.

It's nonsense.

 

I haven't defended anything the Government have done though JC. The post is about a very different subject, which I replied to. The issues being discussed extend far beyond some Facebook posts.

 

I don't doubt there are issues in the Tory party and I would willingly debate them with anybody. I certainly wouldn't defend them blindly, never have and never will.

I don't for one second believe that the Labour Party in general is antisemitic but I do believe there is a hardcore who have found a voice and are staining the party with their vile, racist views.

And I agree with you that racism in all its forms cannot be tolerated.

 

Judaism is a religion and Israel is not a theocracy. Therefore criticism of the Israeli government and its policies is not antisemitism. Netanyahu may be a Semite (Jew) but criticism of his government and policies is not discrimination of his religious faith.

 

It isn't. I don't know anybody who would consider being critical of Israeli policy as antisemitic. There is a world of difference between being critical of Israeli policy and antisemitism. Furthermore it's not difficult to understand the difference.

 

Apparently it is difficult. Israel seems to struggle with the concept.

 

The thing is though Mario, and I don't doubt some of the instances you've quoted though not all, that here and in the States people being critical of the Israeli government ARE being labelled anti semitic.
Stamping out any form of racism is imperative but there are those who are exploiting the slur and dragging our already fractured political system into the gutter.

 

I don't doubt that there are some instances where genuine criticism of Israel is being labelled as antisemitism but these would be discredited without too much effort by any competent investigation.