Big week ahead

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by redarmychris, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. Gordon Owen

    Gordon Owen Well-Known Member

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    750k rising to a million, which he never got to due to leaving for Cardiff, i'd be very surprised if he was on more than 10k at Wigan. Nit picking but either way cheaper than McGeehan.

    6 league goals at this level in 1426 minutes, majority of those minutes in a relegated side or coming on for a lost cause. Goal every 3 games and now we're talking about championship goalscorers costing way more than we can afford.

    In fact I've just talked myself into thinking Moore would be a great signing.

    And what's with the examples being Wednesday players, we all know they've overpaid for their aquad. They could have got Winnall for 10k a week. And Gayle was the best striker in the league.
     
  2. Jimmy cricket

    Jimmy cricket Well-Known Member

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    I do not have the correct information to make recommendations provide me what I asked you to provide me which are the things that the club has at its disposal and I will do so.

    To clarify. The club had the same resources in the summer. How many players have stepped into the side and immediately been able to make an impact other than Lindsay? How many of our signings since January 2017 have been successful?

    I will support Moore like I do all our players. I suspect I will be the one defending him if he doesn’t score for 20 games whilst trolls like you start attacking him.
     
  3. redarmychris

    redarmychris Well-Known Member

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    Good debate until you yet again resort to calling me a troll.

    I don’t need to explain why I’m clearly not one.

    Discussion over.
     
  4. red

    redrum Well-Known Member

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    But 3.5 million is unaffordable for us even without wages. I wouldnt be against 1 or 2 older players coming in i like the plan also rather wateh players develop than players taking a final pay packet. But like RAC say they is alot of "older heads" in other teams also struggling on big wages.
     
  5. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    We are capable of achieving that though its much harder than it was in the 80s and 90s. But did the time spent in lower leagues never happen? Are you saying we should never be relegated again? Sometimes any club will have a bad season. Force circumstances. Nobody's fault.
    As for Bradford, much though I admire their ambition in bringing in more fans. Where have they been for the last 15 years? Below sad little under achieving us.
     
  6. Jimmy cricket

    Jimmy cricket Well-Known Member

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    We are capable of it. That’s the point. To do so we need to compete. If we go down this season we will have been relegated 3 times in 16 years and been involved in relegation fights for every season that we have spent in the Championship other than last season.ambition to treat our fans well or have the level of success I outlined seems a dirty word. We should just tuck our forelocks and go ‘ever so humble Sir’ every time we get to the Championship. We are the ones who actually believe the #teamslikebarnsley nonsense.
     
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  7. Jimmy cricket

    Jimmy cricket Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know how to say more clearly I don’t want a team full of overpaid never has beens. That is not the only choice. We proved it when we signed Hammill. In terms of the final pay packet. Watching the joy that Jason Scotland had when he played for us was brilliant. Not every player is Leroy Lita. Not everyone from the plan is Alfie Mawson. It’s about balance. To balance a team you need flexibility.
     
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  8. SuperTyke

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    Agreed because there is no middle ground is there
     
  9. red

    redrum Well-Known Member

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    No when people are saying we need to sign proven championship players we can't afford that simple as hecky himself has also said this! Sorry to disappoint.
     
  10. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    If we get Moore & Fletcher I'll be over the moon. Main thing we need though is experience in the middle of the park.
    I wasn't at Millwall yesterday, although a few of my pals were. I rate Williams highly, but I think we are asking a lot of the lad.
    A Morsy / James type figure in there would make all the difference. Williams would have more scope to go forwards too. He clearly has a good shot on him.
     
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  11. SuperTyke

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    Difference between can't afford and doesn't fit within the parameters of the plan which is clearly only capable of building a squad in league one
     
  12. e-red

    e-red Active Member

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    The idea of a wage structure in which every player gets football's equivalent of minimum wage is a nonsense. Some players are going to be better than others and need to be paid more and that's where the system fell down last January. The introduction of players from lower leagues being grafted on to a spine of experienced players will probably work. The annoying thing is that we had the spine last January and we haven't got it now. That's the investment that needs to be made now.
     
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  13. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    Are we as big a club as Aston Villa? Sunderland, Birmingham City, Newcastle, Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield United, Nottingham Forest, Derby, Leeds, Norwich, Wolves? No. In a way we ARE teams like Barnsley and I'm proud that we regularly give the above a bloody nose. That doesn't insulate us from the reality of having bad seasons from time to time.
    As for our previous spell in this league it was pretty dire and the policy was wrong. Cryne addressed that with the only feasible way of operating.
     
  14. Jimmy cricket

    Jimmy cricket Well-Known Member

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    The big club thing is meaningless. There are plenty of bigger clubs further down the league than us. I put us well able to compete at mid table even if you accept the big club argument. We are equally dire this season as we were previously. We have not addressed the problem.
     
  15. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    We've got a good track record with players in recent seasons. We should be able to attract quality players who need game time. We did it last year with Matty James. There must be a similar player out there, whether in the UK or overseas.
     
  16. blivy

    blivy Well-Known Member

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    Other than Burton, we’re probably the least fashionable club in the Championship. Given the choice between us and another Championship club, 9 times out of 10 a player won’t choose us. That’s not defeatist or giving up, it’s just the nature of the position we’re in.

    Therefore, signing proven Championship players is incredibly difficult, because if they’re capable of making that instant impact and other clubs are aware of their availability (which I’m sure they will be, if they’re proven Championship players) we’ll be competing with 5+ other clubs to sign them, each of which the player in question would rather join.

    So how do we change the position we’re in? I think we have two choices:

    1. Start offering more in transfer fees and wages. However, to attract proven Championship players, we’ll have to offer significantly more than the 5+ other Championship clubs that would also want them (as given the choice between Villa and Barnsley, or London and Barnsley, you’re going to want a significant premium to sign for Barnsley). Therefore, a “bit more” won’t cut it, we’re going to need to offer £25k+ (dependent on the player) to get quality Championship players. Do we do this? Well, our owners can certainly afford it, but I seriously doubt they’ll ever splash the cash like this. They’ve bought Barnsley as an investment and are looking to make a return. You don’t get a return by breaking the wage structure. How many other Championship clubs are run profitably? Most are in £millions of debt and their owners have lost significant amounts of money on them.

    2. Continue with the current strategy, but with a bit more finance. We still can’t compete with other Championship clubs in terms of transfer fees and wages, but if we can identify players with the potential to be fantastic Championship players, and importantly, that other Championship clubs aren’t aware of. We potentially have a very effective method of signing future Championship players. The downside, of course, is the time needed for them to adjust to the Championship. It took Hourihane, Winnall etc over a season to become Championship players, but then we did spend buttons on them. Now we have a bit more cash we can sign these sorts of players but who are a bit more progressed in their development, and who might only take a few months to adjust. We can also spread the net wider, looking abroad rather than only in Britain, so the potential pool of talent is much wider.

    To me, 2. is a far more sensible choice for the owners. Of course, I’d love us to sign proven Championship players, but it’s easy to spend other people’s money. If the owners are going to make a return on investment, we need to be a club that develops players and sells them on for a profit, we can’t buy the finished article as we’ll just lose money on them, particularly given we’re so far away from the Premier league.

    Previously we bought players for £200k (eg Winnall Hourihane), they needed a year to get up a speed (during which results suffered) we got one year out of them before selling them for £2million+ before their contract expired (rightly or wrongly). With the additional finance we can sign similar players but of a higher standard for £500k-£1million (i.e still not breaking the bank) who take less time to get up to speed, who we can offer improved, longer term contracts to once we know they’re going to be successful, get a couple more years out of them before finally selling them for £5million+.

    You could say that this smacks of lack of ambition. But the owners have said that they’d be prepared to fund a tilt at promotion when the time is right. When we get a group of players together who have all developed into top Championship players and we’re in a position to compete at the top end of the championship, I’m sure they’ll but an extra £20m-£30m in to try and get to the Premier league. It’s all about risk and reward though. They’re not going to put that sort of money in when there’s a substantial risk we won’t make it to the Premier league. Too many clubs have fallen by the wayside attempting to buy their way to the premier league without any foundation. It’ll take a while to ever get to the position though, but that’s fine, the owners have said they’re in this for the long term.

    All that said, we’re in a bit of a difficult position at the moment given we’re back in the first phase of the plan with lots of developing players. There’s a real risk that we could get relegated, so it remains to be seen whether we break the plan to attempt to secure our championship status, and sign championship ready players. I don’t think we will, but the owners might be prepared to spend a bit more on players who are very close to being championship ready.
     
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  17. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    Is that true? I fully realise that we don't have the same appeal as some of the big city clubs: Leeds, the two Sheffields, Villa, Birmingham, Sunderland, Forest. Although there are some big Cities that are not very appealing due to their isolation from the rest of the country: Norwich, Hull, Cardiff and Bristol. Being on the M1 between Leeds and Sheffield and just over the hill from Manchester has always been an advantage. You can play for Barnsley but you don't have to live here.

    Wolves and Boro have been more successful recently which is a pull, others like QPR and Derby have in the past, but memories of that are definitely fading. Preston, Millwall, Fulham, Brentford, Ipswich, Reading, Bolton... are they seen as more prestigious than us? Rich owners can make them look more appealing, but are there any with more cash than ours now have?

    We have a decent ground, excellent training facilities (much better than most with their location next to the stadium), cheap house prices, good transport links... We're behind some, but if we can pay similar wages, I would have thought we're considered on par with half of the clubs in this division at least.
     
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  18. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    I knew Moore was signing for us about 10 days ago...my contact at Rotherham United said he is an extremely good player who their management are devastated to lose .....just hope he's right.
     
  19. Gordon Owen

    Gordon Owen Well-Known Member

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    How have you managed to quote supertykes comment with my name? Its magic.
     
  20. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

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    Tom Bradshaw is apparently attracting interest from several Championship clubs.
    Reading, Ipswich and QPR are all keen to sign him.
     

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