Corbyn: set the controls for the heart of the sun

Whenever I think of Corbyn, I think of Wolfie Smith and the Tooting Popular Front (a reference for the oldies amongst us there). It is no good sitting around in a front room shouting "power to the people". If you want to be elected, you have to have policies that the majority of people will vote for, and there is no sign that Corbyn's Labour Party are anywhere near learning that lesson. The hard left hate Tony Blair, but at least he won elections.

 

Aye, down from 32% before the ill considered leadership challenge

 

Corbyn didn't lose the last 2 elections-His party did because people say they wanted change. Yet we are constantly being told that Labour are now too far to the left. FFS they called Milliband 'Red Edd'
As for the majority of people voting for Policies. Nothing's changed as parties still chase and haggle for the Middle ground and try to appease the marginal seats.

 

People have got short memories and are talking like we've never had a Labour government , don't forget they had 13 years in power recently and basically cocked it up [oh I forgot it was all the banks fault ] . The general public in the main simply don't trust them with the economy but yet they keep banging on about putting taxes up to pay for a 'Brighter future for all' . It's nonsense . I'm just a normal bloke that works and pays his taxes , uses the NHS and other services like everyone else . I don't know much but what I do know is that there's no difference between that lot and this lot .

 

Which of these aren't policies the majority would vote for? Why?

Corbyn’s 10 pledges<br />
Full employment and an economy that works for all: based around a £500bn public investment via the planned national investment bank.<br />
A secure homes guarantee: building 1m new homes in five years, at least half of them council homes. Also rent controls and secure tenancies.<br />
Security at work: includes stronger employment rights, an end to zero hours contracts and mandatory collective bargaining for companies with 250 or more employees.<br />
Secure our NHS and social care: end health service privatisation and bring services into a “secure, publicly-provided NHS”.<br />
A national education service: includes universal public childcare, the “progressive restoration” of free education, and quality apprenticeships.<br />
Action to secure our environment: includes keeping to Paris climate agreement, and moving to a “low-carbon economy” and green industries, in part via national investment bank.<br />
Put the public back into our economy and services: includes renationalising railways and bringing private bus, leisure and sports facilities back into local government control.<br />
Cut income and wealth inequality: make a progressive tax system so highest earners are “fairly taxed”, shrink the gap between the highest and lowest paid.<br />
Action to secure an equal society: includes action to combat violence against women, as well as discrimination based on race, sexuality or disability, and defend the Human Rights Act.<br />
Peace and justice at the heart of foreign policy: aims to put conflict resolution and human rights “at the heart of foreign policy”.

If the quote doesn't work, pointers would be appreciated!

Cheers.

 

He's not specifically mentioning my dad's council house there.

 

I hope that you do not mind, but I have just chosen the first of the Labour Party Policy Statements. Dealing with all ten will just take too long. Please understand that I am not trying to tell anyone how to vote. I am merely explaining why I cannot vote for Mr Corbyn’s ideas. Neither am I claiming that I am an all-knowing guru. I am just old enough to doubt promises and grumpy enough to seek reasons and explanations. The full text of the first promise is as follows:

Full Employment and an economy that works for all
We will create a million good quality jobs across our regions and nations and guarantee a decent job for all. By investing £500 billion in infrastructure, manufacturing and new industries backed up by a publicly-owned National Investment Bank and regional banks we will build a high skilled, high tech, low carbon economy that ends austerity and leaves no one and nowhere left behind. We will invest in the high speed broadband, energy, transport and homes that our country needs and allow good businesses to thrive, and support a new generation of co-operative enterprises.

The problem as I see it
£500 billion is £5 followed by 11 (yes 11) zeros. That is £8,333 for every man woman and child in the country. It is a huge amount of money. Assuming an interest rate of just 5%, the interest on that money amounts to £25 billion per year or £417 pa for every man woman and child in the UK. I Assume that he is not just going to create that money, which would lead to run-way inflation of a type not experienced anywhere since Germany between the wars, and which inevitably led to the rise of Adolf Hitler as the German public went mad in frustration and the desperate desire for a solution. No, he is going to have to borrow it. Given the mess that our banks are in, that means that he has to approach China or Saudi Arabia for it. Do you really want to owe that sort of money to either of those countries? But setting aside the problem of finding the cash, the question is, is it a good idea.

He wants good quality jobs for all, but he does not say what those good quality jobs are. Governments are notoriously poor at job creation. Could a government have created a Google, could they have created an Apple, or a Microsoft or even an Amazon. These companies were created in the USA by inspired individuals who invented a marketplace. These companies have gone on to dominate their marketplace and have created more jobs than Mr Corbyn could dream about. They have done so because they were formed in an environment that rewards success and quickly punishes failure. Capitalism thrives on greed, and I can see how that would upset a lot of people. Capitalism needs to be heavily legislated in order curb its worst excesses. But Capitalism works and industrial/commercial investment directed from a room in government does not. Communist systems all over the world have abandoned central control of investment in favour of market driven investment, but Mr Corbyn wants to adopt it, and is prepared to buy votes from the unwary with promises of Utopia. I dread to think what the phrase “co-operative enterprises” means. I fear the workers will be running the show, and I dread to think what that means in practice.

No-one likes austerity, and when that austerity was created because of poor banking practices, then people are naturally angry. However, if those loans are not repaid, the next generation will continue to pay interest on the sums that are being borrowed. The problem with Mr Corbyns plan is that the money he borrows will have to be repaid, either that or the next generation will be paying interest on the debt. Austerity is a bitter pill to swallow now, but just imagine how the next generation will feel when they are asked to clear up Mr Corbyn’s mess.

 

In terms of austerity current policies have not worked with national debt increasing since Labour left office. Polices that look to stimulate growth may or may not be more effective but at least they would be positive rather than negative and ineffective.

Austerity was a banner to hide an ideological cleansing. Britain is less in debt now than at most points during the last 60 years.

Capitalism failed. It is now propped up by government as Jay said it is does not exist without state intervention it would have collapsed. Amazon and Apple great examples of tax avoidance and not putting anything back into local economies.

 

Yes Mr Bank Manager - I'd like a £500bn loan - tomorrow please.......................

The investment is over a period of time flippin 'eck

The assets - eg council homes would NOT be sold off producing an income (rent) - or a return on investment (ROI) as the capitalists amongst you I believe would say

Or we could just believe the 'establishment' just like we did with Hillsborough AND Orgreave

I think it is time people started to think for themselves or at least keep a mind open to other possibilities and not blindly follow the people who control society with their money and power - this inequality that people have is down to what is an accident of birth in the majority of cases.

Sheep................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIWOhisqrP8

 

It seems as though the mechanisms to keep the system in check failed. Then operated to prevent meltdown.

Nobody thinks that capitalism, in a pure form, is any better for society than anything swinging way to the other side of the scale.

Our system, whatever label you stick on it, kept the show on the road.

If capitalism failed, what have we got now? It's no different to what has always been going on.

 

I'll go to town when I have time but a couple of starters...

5% interest? I don't think the Government is borrowing at anything like that.

You say he has to borrow the money but we've been printing money through QE for nearly 10 years now. Various economists suggest it's been a failure and we'd have been better off using the money to invest in infrastructure over the long term.

You'd also be surprised about the power and ability of the "entrepreneurial state". Even in the US.

We can pay debt off faster with an economy that grows and generates more income for the Exchequer.

Germany seems to manage quite well with more worker involvement. It's about recognising that everyone has their part to play and not just worshipping money

 

And we will fix it so that the sun shines every day and no-one will ever fall out. If people want roses round their door then these will be provided by the state. No one will be forced to do anything they don't want to and the working week will be cut to 20 hours a week so we can all enjoy more leisure time to take advantage of the huge rises in living standards that will be guaranteed to everyone (except wealthy people, the bstards).

I have never seen that list of pledges before now, but reading it sends a chill through my bones. 100% uncosted blue sky garbage, guaranteed to wreck the country for a generation. *shudder* The idea of borrowing £500 BILLION pounds - no words.


Just think about it

£500bn borrowed
half a million council houses built
NHS funding increases
free childcare for all
renationalised industries

It is the biggest loads of pie in the sky ******** I have ever read.

That's why these are policies the majority wouldn't vote for. Because the majority have a modicum of common sense enough to realise that it is a road to utter ruin.

 

But presumably you'd vote for the lot that's borrowed far more and achieved the root sum total of nowt except the biggest scam since privatisation?

 

The rate that the government borrows money is set according to its perceived credit worthiness - just like it is for individuals. You really think we'd be borrowing money at the rates we are now if we suddenly go on a £500bn bender?. What rates do Spain, Italy or Greece borrow money at?

 

It all depends on what it's spent on. Economists around the world, even the IMF are saying that the UK needs to invest i its infrastructure. To do it we need sustained investment.

Like I've posted elsewhere, we could use the process of QE. Printing money and handing it to the banks has been an abject failure of public policy. For the wider public at any least.

 

It all depends on how much you're borrowing.

Plus, why must we borrow? You borrow because you can't pay for it from what you've got.

For every borrower, there's a lender.

And neither one nor the other be (to paraphrase Shakespeare).

Live within your means.

Would you think it a good idea for Joe Average to max out on his credit card?

So... we should start evening things up now for the sake of our children. And our children's children.

There's a Moody Blues l.p. in there somewhere

 

The simplest response is that the finances of a country are not comparable to those of a family. The closest parallel you can make is buying a house. Folk that can afford to buy one with a mortgage. It's a long term investment for their family. Much the same as borrowing for infrastructure by a government.

 

Sorry, but Capitalism has not failed. It is thriving and prospering in the USA. This country does not like that sort of Capitalism, and I can quite understand why, so it legislates more aggressively than does the USA, but nevertheless, our governments, whatever the colour, and no matter what the shade, all operate within the background of Capitalism. It was not Capitalism that failed, it was the banking system. Unless we go back to barter as a financial system, we need a currency. The banking crisis put our very currency system in danger. The banks had to be saved. There was no alternative, and if you do not believe that, then you are not living in my world. Austerity is not a banner to hide ideological cleansing. Austerity is a way of ensuring that the debt incurred by one generation is not passed on to the next generation for payment.

I do not know what you have been reading, but perhaps the real answer are much simpler than you think.

 

So if when the policies are developed they can be shown to be costed you'd vote for them?

 

I will just concentrate on the 5% interest percentage that I have used as you seem to view this as excessive.

This country in not paying 5% interest on its debts at the moment. It is not doing so because the foreign investors who provide those loans views the United Kingdom as a safe home for their money. Generally, it has a well run economy and has responsible people in charge. In spite of the fact that our debt is rising, it is generally regarded that we will be able to service that debt.

But how will those foreign investor react if the country is taken over by a maniac who wants to turn it into a quasi-communist state. They will think that their money is less safe and they will demand a higher rate of interest in order to compensate them for the higher risk that they are running. In view of the amount of money that we are talking about, and the ideas in the Labour manifesto, I believe that the rate is conservative.