Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Dyson, Feb 6, 2018.
How many times do you think he saw Thiam or Knaussmullner or Cavare or Pannilos play?
I think Dyson is usually spot on about the club, the ways it’s run and how difficult the challenge was this year. However I think he’s very wrong here. Yes, we have had some superb memories and yes, I would have been happy for him to continue for many years. I liked having a talented young man from tarn carrying out a long term plan. It felt ‘right’. However let’s remove some of the mythology here. Our success was down to PHs winning mentality and two or three crucial players (Connor, Scowen, Roberts imo). Hecky identified, or at least was heavily involved in the process of identifying replacements for these players. We signed, at no small cost, Lindsay, Mcgeehan (Potts) and Mallan as such. McBurnie was identified to replace Winall and that saga went on as it did.
The season began badly and deteriorated from there. Even by February we show no awareness of who our best players are or what formation works. We’ve experimented with 451 4411 442, diamond midfields and that bloody disaster 532 at villa among others. Changing players and positions every week. A manager with only a few wins in 12 months went back to the new board in January and asked for another set of players (“experienced players that can play from now”- I think he said), and a new contract. He got this. Largely. Mills, and Pinnilos were identified as the experience championship ready players, Moore recruited as one of the best players in the 3rd tier in the same way Bradshaw had been the previous summer. The only player possibly unknown to Hecky was Knasmüllner. Additionally the club cashed in on a young, possibly brilliant centre half because he had off pitch issues with said manager.
Dyson, if this is right, is arguing that we should have treated PH better, not sold wantaway players, signed players from his list alone, and given him a massive 5 year contract to boot. This is frankly, insane, no man is bigger than the club. The ‘Barnsley born and bred’ crap has been revealed to be just spin from a man interested (rightly or wrongly) in his own career above all. No manger has been backed like PH in recent club history, that he’s broken all agreements and pissed off to Leeds with all our back room staff in suspicious circumstances is a kick in the face for the club, and those at any level, fan or director, who showed him faith.
Even if this is true, why the **** has he signed a new contract then? And why would he believe the events of last January, under different ownership, would be repeated considering we've just had a very positive transfer window? Surely the fact we didn't let Yiadom go indicates we're willing to take a financial hit to keep our better players, so why would he be concerned about that now?
‘Disengaged with a manager’. Don’t get this, we gave him a new contract and new players 12 months into a shite run. Partially because he was leveraging, shamefully now it appears, his own relationship with the fans at every opportunity.
It was indeed a short space of time, a fortnight between him talking at The Lamproom and going to another job.
Ffs yes he was given a hard job to do but look at the sallery he was on. Lets assume he was on 5k per week compared to what I know some people are on with a hell of a lot more responsibility he was well rewarded. Lets not fool ourselves he set this situstion up so he could benefit financially. He also schemed with his colleagues to take some of them with him. He has left the club in a **** situation with no consideration for the fans or the club. A club and set of fans who have stood by him and hus tesm after only 1 win in 16. He is not a fan neither does he have any principles or loyalty.
Taking a better job for more pay and status is fine but there is a correct protocol to follow in any form of employment. He did not follow this. He should bow his head in shame. Wait to he has to visit Oakwell again he will deserve all the abuse he gets.
It's like saying that if your wife leaves you for another bloke who has a 6 pack and earns £10k more a year that you can't blame her, wish them good luck in the future. Fxck em both.
How can a team of young players buy in to a plan when their manager doesn't. If he hadn't been knocked back he would be at Forest, Norwich or Sunderland now. Lower than Winnall.
Its not so much as what its how and when
It seems very obvious to me that things weren't right behind the scenes for a while. For all the talk of a positive transfer window, most of those signings were last minute ones and perhaps one of Hecky's frustrations is that there was no obvious clarity as to who exactly was coming in until the last couple of days or two. In the meantime, we had to play all January's fixtures with pretty much the same squad, less the one's we shipped out on loan such as McGeehan, leaving us woefully short of able bodies for the Villa fixture in particular.
The most surprising aspect of the whole thing for me is the (presumably genuine) shock and surprise expressed in the club's statement, which suggests that they were genuinely caught out by this. To lose four key members of staff in a single stroke suggests that there was deep-set dissatisfaction within the management team which GG and the new Board were either unaware of or had underestimated. That might be partly explained by the fact that most of them are newly in post, but it's still a failure to recognise the inherent risk which has now led to us being 4 bodies short in the coaching staff at the worst possible time in the season. These are the some of the reasons I referred to earlier in the thread as to why the club has to look inwardly at the whole chain of events around this, as fixing some of the obvious issues is essential to us both recruiting and retaining the next manager.
Maybe as part of the new appointment we need to look at the 'plan' with regard to having a Head Coach rather than a manager. I suspect the new guy needs to have more input into the recruitment process than we've allowed LJ and Hecky (at the very least) to have. I don't know for certain but I suspect that's one of the key challenges to retaining the next incumbent for a longer period of time. It doesn't mean we abandon the existing model completely, but we need to refine it now that (theoretically) we have new investment and less of a need to shop in the bargain basement. If you've watched Moneyball (which is what our model is supposedly based on) then you'll already be aware of the tensions between the recruitment side and the coaching side of the model.
The immediate problem is that fixing this now can't have any impact on us until the summer, as there's no more opportunity to recruit, and there's a genuine risk that we'll be in League One by then (hopefully not, but it looks far more likely now than it did a few weeks ago). In the meantime we have to work with what we've got, including a group of new players wondering what the hell they've walked into given that everyone around them on the coaching side seems to have jumped ship.
Something is definitely not right behind the scenes at the moment. We may never know the details of what this is, but I hope that the club are dealing with this behind the scenes while the recruitment process goes on. Hecky's departure aside, there are just too many odd things coming to light which are not typical events. Off the top of my head, I can think of the following:
- Hecky announcing to a group of supporters that he was signing his contract the next day, and then this being delayed by several weeks.
- Two players pulling out of deals at the last minute, after protracted efforts to bring them to the club.
- Clapham saying that McDonald was weeks away from playing, as explanation of the sale, but Hull starting him immediately after signing for them.
- The timing of our loan departures in the window, where we left ourselves short of cover long before bringing adding to the squad (Moore aside).
- Hecky being noticeably absent with regard to the transfer announcements and the close of the window interviews.
- The failure to recruit key areas of need (goalkeeper) after what appears like a half-hearted attempt to get one specific target.
All of them were odd to me at the time. Individually, none in isolation were particularly concerning, as I thought the club management knew best and should be trusted. However, viewed as a whole in the light of the managerial departures they give me a huge cause for concern at the moment and I'm sure that they're going to be relevant concerns for anyone considering taking the role. Hopefully the new owners can provide the re-assurances they need, but they too have gone very quiet since the takeover. Perhaps this was their intention with GG, and presumably James Cryne, being the key day to day people running the club. However, if that's the case then I think we need GG to become more of a spokesperson for the club in the same way that Ben Mansford was.
The club certainly didn't plan for this situation, and appear to have been totally caught out by it, but it seems to me that it's been building up for quite a long period of time without anyone being fully aware of it. That suggests a lack of alignment currently between Board/CEO level and the coaching staff in general (ironically, very reminiscent of Moneyball) which we need to address and resolve ASAP to ensure we don't find ourselves in this position again.
In relation to GG. I think that's precisely what he's doing. He did the press call with the head coach after Patrick passed away and he did a summary of the transfer window in a video on ifollow. So the last few weeks there has been a step up in his visibility. We should also note that a takeover was going on which was lengthy and detailed and he will have been hugely involved in parts of that on the club side and liaising on sale side due diligence.
He's also the negotiator in a transfer window. And he's still new to the town and our club. To be fair, I think he's a bit of an unsung hero here. My own perception on our departed head coach and his internal relationships is that he had most friction with the spreadsheet coordinator. Numerous times he flared in interviews, and frankly, if he acts so petulantly at Leeds, he's going to get dismissed immediately.
I've no doubt the recruitment process isn't ideal, and it could be improved greatly. I think we lucked out in its early implentation, so much so its been copied by loads of clubs meaning our potential catch is much less with others throwing more money at people.
Watch back the QPR interview with the departed head coach. He suggests he's very happy with his contract, with the players brought in and just needs to work with them. Couple that with others comments of his lamproom appearance, and his actions in leaving and his words while here are a wide chasm.
I'd hope that the new owners are reviewing all aspects of the club, or at least are/have commissioned GG to be conducting such a review. if they can provide their business insight into those areas, fantastic,
If we can learn and develop and improve, great, but at the same time, if the departed is just a bad egg blaming his tools for not producing and he's been angling for a move for a good time, i'm not sure whats to be learned from that, other than don't put all your faith, hope and trust in someone just because they allege to be a lifelong fan of the club.
Can't answer that if I'm being honest.
Just listened back to Gautier's interview - he constantly refers to the work that both he and Paul Heckingbottom have put in to get the deals done in Jan, and also the 2 lads that changed their minds - both those 2 nothing at all to do with some 'issue' at BFC - there's a lot that's gone wrong whilst Hecky was in charge, 99% of it under the previous regime, but the 'not his players' thing seems to be being blown up to fit a narrative.
Not nec you Dyson, but it'd be better if some folk would be honest and say that no matter what, they don't want the new regime in place, and that they hanker back to a local owner. Hence the 'oh not met his ambitions, not impressed me so far' and so on and so forth.
They've been here 2 months, get a grip.
Remember every player that's signed for us spoke how PH sold the club with the knowledge he had about them, the roles they would play in the squad, their strengths and weaknesses etc I just don't believe he wasn't majority involved in bringing players in
Very concise think hecky was ringing his own alarm bells though not directly in regards to not immediately signing a new contract .
Casts a shadow on why 2 players thought this was a no go coming to tarn.
Just need clarification what management are wanting agreeably not while after getting a new head coach .
GK coach. Fitness coach - even though no points on board fitness levels were good throughout games .As channel 5 football qouted we did not look like a side fighting relegation - no heads down prior to
P H leaving.
PH left with Barnsley having a compensation.made sure football club got something out of his intended departure. With coaching staff.
Don't want division one football .Backward step.
He might not be an idiot but you won't convince me he hasn't been devious duplicitous and deceitful and has dropped the club he purported to love ( you know the one who has stood by him in one of the shittiest runs we have ever had) well in the sh1t at a key part of our season.
Err Cavare was at Huddersfield on trial for ages and brought in after a trial at Oakwell to replace Yiadom , Pannilos was at Notts Forest for two years before injury and going back to Córdoba his original club , maybe he didn’t know much about Thiam or Knaussmuller but according to Hecky he was spending too much time on off field business and transfers , he can’t have it both ways . According to GG the January signings were all ones Hecky wanted . If he’s not just gone to Leeds for the money , which I think he has, do you really think he’ll have a say in the players he gets
"Casts a shadow on why 2 players thought this was a no go coming to tarn."
Unless Gautier is lying :
1. Changed his wage demands after choosing his squad number so the club pulled the plug.
2. Young lad at 22, decided that uprooting to another country wasn't for him at this time.
Now in both cases they could rock up at other clubs, even in England at some stage, but there's no correlation with Hecky giving off vibes that he thought our new owners were rubbish, or that things were not well.
Wow... Just wow!!
Is the Spreadsheet Co-Ordinator a real person? If so, everyone else but me must know his name - so who is he (or she)?
Or is it just good ol' Al Gorithm?
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