James McClean Not Wearing A Poppy Again

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by dreamboy3000, Oct 30, 2018.

  1. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn’t engage with that chap he’s just a troll looking for a bite.
     
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  2. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Some great comments on here unfortunately the thread was taken over by the resident troll which ruined it a little. The pressure on people to conform is wrong. People should remember things however they want to.
     
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  3. North Yorks Red

    North Yorks Red Well-Known Member

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    What's wrong with the pins as long as they are the official British Legion ones? We've all got them, far more practical than the paper, 'damn I've lost it again' ones.
    Can't agree with different colours for different wars either, that's making it like a fking football match.
    Our armed forces are just that, OUR armed forces and I for one am very appreciative of the job they do wherever they were or are asked to do it,and if you want a purple one ,here's a thought why not wear one of each?
    Its a personal choice, agreed, but personally I can't help but see it as disrespectful.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
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  4. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    Exactly when did it lose meaning to you?...just asking.
     
  5. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    Yes he has....apparently every subsequent squaddie was just there " earning a wage"....gorging themselves on money at the expense of the great British taxpayer...some people are so selfish.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  6. Redstone

    Redstone Well-Known Member

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    Where exactly did he say a life isn't as important? I have read his post a few times to check and he clearly never said that or even hinted at, i think you have taken something away from it that isn't their.
    It's hard for some people to separate the political aspects of war from the service personnel who have no say in such matters. For me the poopy is for those who have served and nothing to do with the reason behind the conflict itself.
    In my mind the people who went off to war in the two world wars of the previous century are heroes. Those who have served in recent conflicts are likely heroic, brave individuals but I see them more as victims of our awful policy, and every bit as worthy of remembering.
     
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  7. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    I actually think he's got a point. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I'm not sure I disagree either. He's made me think, and if someone puts forward an argument that makes you think then that point is valid isn't it?

    He's not saying you should wear a poppy, far from it, he believes in personal choice and says there should be absolutely no pressure to wear one. And he's right in stating that if you're not in the public eye, so for 99.9% of us, there is no pressure to wear a poppy.

    Neither does he state that you shouldn't wear a different colour poppy, or whatever symbol of remembrance you like, for whosoever or whatever you like, on any of the other 364 days of the year. His argument is simply that on one day of the year, if you are going to nail your colours to the mast and wear a symbol of remembrance, wear a red one, because on this day, for as long as we have all been alive, we've chosen to remember people who have died in warfare.

    There are undoubtedly many valid arguments against that stance, and I don't necessarily think he's right, but it's not an unreasonable argument that he's put forward and it's one that I personally have found thought provoking.
     
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  8. Redhelen

    Redhelen Well-Known Member

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    I think the main point is that a whole generation of young men died or were cruelly injured in ww1 hence the poppy symbol. Those that survived are no longer with us and so people wearing different colours/No poppy is not disrespectful.

    There was a real sense that the horror of war should not be forgotten.
     
  9. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

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    Poppy money goes to Royal British Legion to support ex personnel and families,, this can be anything from food, clothing, support, grants for fridges, washer machines etc and grants to start businesses up.
    The state do take care of ex servicemen, but they treat them the same as every other citizen, wether this is correct is open to opinion
    They get pensions if they qualify and NHS comes under same as Q2.
     
  10. Spuggy

    Spuggy Well-Known Member

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    It should always be a choice weather people wear them or not. I don't agree with the bickering over them though. I think that people forget that a lot of men and women lost their lives for our liberties and for that I will be wearing one to show respect.
     
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  11. upt

    upthecolliers Well-Known Member

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    My old Grandad fought in WW1 in France, one of his son's died in WW2 in the battle at Monty Casino in Italy and he never wore a poppy, never asked him why.
    I do out of respect for the men woman and children that died.
     
  12. portsmouth tyke

    portsmouth tyke Well-Known Member

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    As a serving member of 29 years in the army I agree it is a individuals choice to wear the red poppy or not, however and only IMO, they are using remembrance day as a piggy back to make more money, the white poppy is a pacifist movement where all profits do not go to help civilians affected by war but they use it to spread the word in schools on consietious objectors etc, like I say each to there own but I think a more fitting day for the white poppy would be around the 1st of April ( remember opinions are like arsejoles we all have one but all are slightly different
     
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  13. red

    redrum Well-Known Member

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    I agree with what you say but if now the poppy now represent everything the British army has done I can see why McLean wouldn't wear one.
     
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  14. troff

    troff Well-Known Member

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    I don’t like how Remembrance Day has become an overstated and almost publicly obligatory thing. To me if there is direct or indirect pressure on somebody to support something then it dilutes that support. It should be a quiet day of respect and contemplation, it has become an annual event which is growing and growing, becoming a commercial entity similar to things like Christmas, Easter, Mother’s Day. That’s a shame.

    There will be footballers wearing poppies on their shirts over the next couple of weekends that don’t actually have much idea why they are doing so - including players of nationalities that were in opposition in the conflicts - not that it matters, we can all show respect - but also from places where the poppy symbol holds no meaning.

    The poppy isn’t really used in the same way outside the U.K., Canada, Australia and NZ. So unless the scores of South American and European players who will be provided with a shirt with a poppy on will be educated as to why they are doing so, it doesn’t really mean anything. None of the players are necessarily choosing to display a poppy, it’s given to them.

    There are a number of military veteran groups that have massive reservations about the Legion’s Poppy Day appeal, due to it being excessive and used to drum up support for otherwise unpopular ongoing military deployments.

    As for James McClean, he has repeatedly and eloquently said why he won’t wear a poppy. I don’t necessarily agree with him on his reasons but at no point has he indicated any disrespect to those who fell in the other conflicts. And to be fair I don’t think any of us are from where he is, it is difficult to put yourself in his shoes. His family may have suffered first hand directly or indirectly, who knows. At least he has the courage to stand up for his beliefs rather than blindly follow like sheep.

    It is wrong that it has become an assumption in society that if you don’t wear a poppy that you have no respect for those who sacrificed themselves for us.

    I always buy a poppy, and in recent years I’ve bought pins, wrist bands, snap bands too. I have no issue supporting the charity side of it, but I don’t for example always swap which jacket the poppy is on, don’t always go out wearing them. The lack of constant public display doesn’t lessen my respect.

    I wouldn’t display an alternative such as the purple or white ones but each to their own and for their own reasons.
     
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  15. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    Not a bad idea. I think things are different for younger people in understanding these things.

    I was lucky that my Great Grandad survived to 97. He was wounded at the Somme in 1916. The shrapnel hit him an inch from his heart. An inch the other way all my family would not have existed. This explains the brutality of war & also the sacrifices made by the many who did not return & the civilians (& animals) wiped out too.

    If you are under 30 you are unlikely to have met any living relatives who lived through the world wars & it is seen as a part of history, not your lifetime. A lot of people confuse the Remembrance Day stuff with the glorification of war, which is not what it is about & it should not be used for.
    At the end of the day people are free to express themselves in any way regarding this. I bought a poppy, but I also marched against the Iraq War, which has caused more suffering in the Middle East & has indirectly lead to the rise of fascism again in Europe, as a result of the migrant crisis.
    I can separate the two in my mind, but others don't see it that way & that is fine too. I do think our ex-servicemen are not treated well & many are taking their own lives & living on the streets as a result of PTSD. I hope most of the money is being used to help these people.
     
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  16. portsmouth tyke

    portsmouth tyke Well-Known Member

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    I served in Iraq and not one of my mates said or agreed it was a war where we should have been sent, but Blair justified it by saying the Iraqi's had WMD, when they did not. It was all about foreign contracts and the black gold, I have many many friends doing security out in Iraq on pop star wages on the back of Blair's f#$k up. Sadam was a loon but now you have thousands of loons, better the devil you know ( again all opinions ), I have been to 2 funerals in the past 12 months on friends who have taken there own lives, good strong characters who you never would have thought would commit suicide.
     
  17. Hom

    Homer Well-Known Member

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    This board or forum has been criticised lately about the trolls using it
    The comments by some on this topic is about as bad as it gets.
    We are remembering people who fought and died for your freedom
    You would not be on this board if they had not stopped our freedom being lost and the British way of life
    If you do not want to buy or wear a poppy ok, but do not then show your intelligence by debasing our former heroes who gave their life for you to be able to watch Barnsley FC. And have freedom
     
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  18. Hom

    Homer Well-Known Member

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    Hi Portsmouth tyke
    Agree with you entirely. I think we are getting some bad Presidents in the USA
    Bush was a loose cannon and conned Blair
    The result being people like you having to clean up the mess they created
    Then after serving in such conditions and losing mates they cannot look after you when you return
    As one mad dog was cleaned out of the kennel another three or four jumped in it
    It is typical of warfare and the big generals watching on sidelines
    Best of luck mate
     
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  19. portsmouth tyke

    portsmouth tyke Well-Known Member

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    Hi Homer, on the nail mate
     
  20. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    Although this debate is going on in Ireland at the moment, its been an invisible elephant in the room for a long time...some are now recognising that far more Irishmen joined the British Army in WW1 than have ever served in the IRA in its history, which is not necessarily the message Nationalists would want to promote. The question of WW2 is also interesting in that the Official story reads that Ireland stayed neutral but individually thousands volunteered to fight for Britain...interesting article below.

    https://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/the-forgotten-irish-who-fought-in-ww2-28895112.html
     

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