Lee Johnson time at Barnsley (SAFC Supporter here)

My personal belief is that the signing of Hammill necessitated Johnson changing the way he was setting the team up because he (Hammill) couldn't have been accommodated otherwise. Whether Johnson should take the credit for this I'm not really sure. What I will say is that up until that point, life under Johnson had been pretty much a bore-fest. And a spectacularly unsuccessful one at that.

 

I haven't the foggiest idea whether Moyes is the best man for the Sunderland job, mate. But I certainly wouldn't write him off after nine games. If the appointments at your club are always the wrong ones, then questions must be asked over those making these selections. However, if Moyes IS being written off after nine games, how much confidence can any Sunderland fan have in the next manager being any good, as the same people will be making the decision?

 

He made a statement about the signing of John Stones for Everton that didn't go down too well in this neck of the woods....

 

I can imagine we look like a complete basket case of a club from the outside and it's a very good point that we haven't recruited anywhere near well enough for years but some of this needs to be blamed on the managers themselves. We have tried a DOF model which hasn't worked but each manager has still been able to bring in their own players

You do have a point mind but in Poyet's case I would take anything he says with a pinch of salt, he has form for complaining to the media about everything. A few seasons ago we got hammered at Spurs and he completely distanced himself from the players but then when we went on a miracle run and stayed up he tried to take as much of the credit as he could

It was pretty blatant he was trying to get himself sacked so he could piss off with his pay off in the last couple of months of his tenure as well

 

Fat Sam nailed on for Sunderland. Shouldn't get another top job, but if you're desperate

 

Very little confidence in them getting the right man in to be fair which is worrying but we cannot just stick with Moyes in the hope things will get better when they aren't actually getting any better

For context I don't want him sacked but we have made the worst start in PL history (I read this so it may be slightly out) and Moyes was quoted this week saying the season has gone exactly how he thought it would.

My first choice is for him to start doing better but if he doesn't he'll lose his job whether I want him sacked or not. Say if you were rock bottom of the Championship this season you could have a valid argument to keep the manager on as he has previously done very well for you in a short space of time, Moyes had made us miles worse within a couple of months

 

Definitely don't know enough about you to tell you what's the right thing to do mate. All I would say is that it has taken us a long time to get stuff right off the pitch, and it is from that we are now reaping the rewards.

 

Who is involved in your recruitment? Is it solely the managers decision to sign players? You have done pretty well in recent seasons transfer / players coming through wise

 

Any football manager having to select from your group of players would struggle.

You have a terrible squad that I think would struggle in the championship.

Moyes picked up a problem. He's had no where near enough time to solve it. Whoever you appointed would have almost certainly had you down or very near the bottom. Unfortunately Sunderland are a very poor team with a very poor squad. Sacking the manager won't fix it.

 

I can see Sunderland going for the latest 'flavour of the month', as they did with Paulo Di Canio & Gus Poyet and Lee Johnson is certainly that, as is David Wagner at Huddersfield. Not that long ago, so was Karl Robinson at MKDons. Now he's out of work.
I'm one for giving a manager time, mate, and showing patience. However, you're right. There comes a time when enough is enough. The downside is if Sunderland continue to show little, or no, patience with their manager then eventually the quality of applicants will begin to drop.

 

We look in here, put some numbers into excel and bingo

http://www.thenonleague.com/

 

Allardyce didn't struggle with the players we have and we have enough in our squad to stay up with the right manager. Allardyce's points per game would have seen us mid table well away from relegation over a full season. We have lost Johnson who was **** last season and didn't play in the run in as he had been sacked, M'vila who is a big miss, Yedlin who wasn't very good and Kaboul who left when Moyes was in charge

We have a poor PL squad like but so do others like Boro, Hull, Burnley and Swansea

 

There are 3 sides to every story : yours, theirs and the truth.

imho the truth lies somewhere between Johnson being a decent coach, dropping on a club that daren't sack yet another manager which facilitated the recovery from not only an appalling run but some truly abject displays too, and allowing a squad of younger players to gel. He's not a genius, but he's not as bad as it could be made out. I've said elsewhere that I think he's been very lucky so far. If he uses that to establish himself as a top manager then fair do's.

 

I understand patience but arguably the only ones who would have deserved a little longer are Keane (who fell out with the chairman) and O'neill who looked to be taking us down. Bruce, Poyet and Di Canio didn't deserve more time. Advocaat resigned and Allardyce left for England

 

Your loyalty to Hammill does you great credit, but I think that is a lot more complex than that. As for life under Johnson being a bore-fest, did you watch them under Andy Ritchie.

 

Hmm, hugely controversial can of worms that one, and others better placed to answer it than me. We've been through a very difficult period to get to the position we are in. And, as I'm sure the club would admit, they struggled to articulate to the fan base just how our structure was designed to work or was working. The distrust has eased, but a huge part of this is because we are now doing well.

If you think Lee Johnson did a good job at Barnsley you probably think that he was instrumental in helping the club learn what was and wasn't working in our strategy. Either way it was never fully clear who was identifying and signing players. Is it clear now? Not fully sure but it is working. More importantly we now have an experienced chairman, an engaged owner, and have had two ambitious, forward thinking Chief Executives. This is a world away from previously when there was often clear animosity between managers and managing director and the owner distracted. Even the new structure has taken a long time to work with steep learning curves for all. We do have a clear recruitment strategy in place, but one that has been pragmatic and amended to make it work (bringing in experienced players last December to compliment the young talent).

Personally I don't think a club will ever be successful unless there is harmony behind the scenes. Over the last 10 years we've had too many strategies that we've abandoned too quickly and then sought to blame the manager for there failure. This time we've had conviction in the strategy, stuck with the manager who was given the job of implementing it, and it paid off. And when he left we appointed from within someone else who was embedded in that same strategy. Continuity, clarity of vision, and harmony.

Until we go on a losing run and then its the end of the world.

 

"Until we go on a losing run and then its the end of the world. "

Oh yes indeedy.

 

I don't see an easy answer for your club, mate. You could appoint the right man for the job, but unless he hits the ground running, it appears from the outside looking in he won't be allowed to have a bad run of form/results before some are demanding his sacking. Sunderland, whether it's deserved or not, do appear to have a reputation of going through managers at an alarming rate. At some point, if the club is to stabilise and progress, this has to change.
I wish you luck, as you have been an enjoyable and excellent poster on our board. Hopefully, you'll continue to post here.

 

I may well post more often as I need to re-learn about the Championship again, it's been a decade since we were last in it but I dare say it's the league we will be starting in next season

I'm usually quite positive about us and don't mean to come across like a sky boy child who wants a manager sacked after every bad run, like I've said I wouldn't sack Moyes yet but please believe me when I say he has been awful since he was appointed

Anyway cheers for the replies and best of luck for the season, hopefully you take points off the scum and play a part in them not being promoted

 

You certainly don't come across as a 'sky boy child'! I've never heard that phrase before, but definitely like it!