O/t 18 billion

It was mega rich paul syke farage gove johnson that wanted us ro.leave

 

Why quote one that was incorrect in the first place if you knew it to be true?

 

Because that's what we actually pay: then you get rebates.
It was mostly in response to those who were wrongly citing "350 million a year"

 

And all towns akin to Barnsley as well. Donny as an example had similar eu support.

Said it at the time - the turkeys voted for Christmas. But for some the inevitable economic downturn that has resulted will never be because of the vote. Some won’t accept what is as plain as the nose on their face. We may recover and come out the other side but I can’t see the prize ever justifying the cost. Or even close to it.

Some disagree. Nudger sets out above why he voted out. All very fair points.

But in response, re immigration, do you expect net migration figures to actually reduce? I don’t. We will have our own visa rules - which will be based on the eu ones anyway and I would be very surprised if eu citizens don’t get automatic right to live and work here still. The change in this regard will be negligible. Migrants from outside of the eu will not have any rule changes either you wouldnt imagine.

Re farmers? Core Tory voters generally. Do you think their eu subsidies won’t just be replaced with direct uk ones as long as they are in power? They’ll be kept onside. Then as, if and when labour get in they couldn’t stop it for fear of the farmers pulling the plug and there being a produce shortage.

Syria. Really? Does being politically and ceremonially aligned to Europe make it easier for Syrians - or anyone from anywhere - to access the U.K. - and would it actually be harder for them when we aren’t? I very much doubt it. Can’t imagine they’ll have billions to increase staffing at borders. Plus there have been no announcements to suggest any alteration of asylum rules or anything from any government official to state they intend to.

Overall I can’t see much truth in any of the perceived benefits of leaving, whilst the costs are already clear and already being felt.

 

We never actually pay it. That is incorrect. We will not take control of it. The figure constantly fluctuates as Teresa Maybot said this week.

 

The thought of not being in the EU and having a Tory government is just too depressing to contemplate.

 

And yet we face that very thing - voted for in the main by those who will suffer most.

 

I suspect they will be out of office not too much later than 2019

 

Mental int it?

 

Don't give me false hope Jim.

 

Some of us are old enough to remember those days.
But there isn't going to be another Thatcher - because, unless we go back to the 1970s of state control - then there isn't a need for a Thatcher.

These are totally different times now - but the same unwritten rules apply - and that is, if you implement laws and regulations then you are solely responsible for them.
If people don't like those rules then yer in trouble at the next election.
To some extent that has been watered down now.
And remember, Thatcher was PM while U.K. was in EU. Although a weaker EU back then.

 

As opposed to the poor that wanted us to leave like Farage, Banks, Johnson, Murdoch and Rothermere?

 

Precisely! If you want to know who Brexit is for, look at the people who championed it. It's not for you and me.

 

Technically, we see about £4-5bn of that back. Mostly in farm subsidies and help for poorer areas. Like the one we live in that has had hundreds of millions of EU funding to help improve the landscape and provide jobs for the local population.

So we only have about £7-8bn leaving the country every year, which is invested to bring jobs and prosperity to other areas of the EU and increase the target market for business based in the UK.

Although, *9* of the 10 most deprived areas in the EU are apparently in the UK so the amount we get back should actually have increased over the next few years.

 

Certainly not for me. I've got a 25% chance of losing my job over it (thats the amount of time last year I spent commuting to the EU for work).

There is suggestions about an EU-wide tax avoidance scheme coming in in January 2019 which would be a big problem for a lot of the people that were behind the campaign to leave.

 

So because I reckon it will save us money not being in the EU, you automatically presume I have a problem with immigrants. Charming.

 

We all voted to leave the EU because we hate brown folk and words on a bus. If that gets pinned on you then it makes life easier cos you don't have to think about where the EU is going and the effect it could have on individual liberty and sovereign govts, let alone antagonising Russia etc. Much easier to call folk thick and racist.

 

WHAT

Gove Johnson etc are far more extreme than Thatcher

 

I’m not sure anyone has done that.

I certainly haven’t if somebody else did.

I will go as far as to say that people who are both thick and racist - they will exist, let’s not pretend otherwise - are very likely to have voted to leave. Don’t assume if you voted to leave in a fully informed way that everybody did.

Doesn’t mean i think all are in that demographic. Obviously not. I imagine some stay voters did so for daft reasons too - maybe because they thought they’d be banned from going to see sticky Vicky in Benidorm or go window shopping in Amsterdam if we left.

It will be of benefit to some to leave. In my opinion not for the majority of folk in the South Yorkshire region who asked for it though. I’m not sure the most hardline brexiteer would make a good argument for a benefit of exit to a working class family in a comparatively deprived area like the ones in this part of the world.

As for individual liberty and sovereign government? I’m not sure I want this particular type of freedom and I think it’s very dangerous to let our government have untethered power, no matter who gets in. With a first past the post system we are always likely to have a single party government, or one propped up with very minor representation.

Without the reigns of the eu they can do what they like. I fear what will happen to the already watered down rights of workers. Zero hours contracts on minimum wage and no prospect of a mortgage - not what I want for my kids but what I suspect the job market here will be flooded with. They might even tweak holiday and parental entitlements, even abolish minimum wage. Why not, if they can get an act of parliament through.

I’m not particularly against the current system or in favour of proportional representation but if we had that and a government made up cross party the actual greater good of the country could be considered rather than point scoring.

Unfortunately I don’t think our politicians are adult enough to work in such a way, they crave the circus of cross bench squabbling, arguing like child siblings.

 

Ok i will tell you about a conversation i had yesterday morning with a committed brexiteer ( yet another one who believed asylum seekers from iraq, syria etc wouldn't be allowed in any more until i pointed out their peoples were not within the EU and are generally illegally smuggled in).
He was arguing that the female footballer who made allegations about the england manager 'was playing the race card' (mmm?). This led to a further discussion about racism.
"We cant call people black ********, but they can call us white ********" he said. Well us whitey's have tended to subjugate people of ethnic origin over the years and well into modern history (america, south africa).
Ok and this is the best bit. He said " my mate used to shout **** off back home you spear chucker" to any opposition black player. "Well that's racist and highly offensive" i said. "Nay", he said, "he could have been referring to cavemen, they chucked spears". What an absolute tool.
And further, i have many associates who are brexiteers. The majority fill their social media pages with racial vitriol, you know, "muzzrat's" this and that: loads of pictures of bacon sandwiches etc. I have been set upon by many of these people after suggesting a more moderate tone is desired, been asked to meet for a fight by a brexiteer mate of over 30 years, been told i will never be spoken to again by quite a few others. This in my experience is not the exception but the norm. Most of them contribute little or nothing to our society (never worked, on dubious DLA or make a living fraudulently). Their hatred must be having a serious impact on their quality of life.
Oh and on a final note, one of the most vitriolic of my pals ( who called me a pinko liberal for pointing out that white anglo saxon priests abused kids too) set up a fundraiser page on facebook asking for people to pay his son's rent for him!! Another great contributor, never worked but hates them darkies coming over and taking our jobs.