O/T Blair.

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Donny Red, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. Redstar

    Redstar Well-Known Member

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    Based on...
     
  2. Redstar

    Redstar Well-Known Member

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    There was no intelligence to support the desire for war.
     
  3. Young Nudger

    Young Nudger Well-Known Member

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    What's 'working class'?
    Is working class my dad who was a deputy at the pit and his grandkids went to private school.
    Or is it my uncle who worked on the railway on relatively low wages and sent his kids to a good school in Sheffield (same school as TinaTyke) and his grandkids are GPs and medical consultants and a TV producer.
    Or is it the guy I worked with in York who was on big wages and spent his money on cars and betting on horses and was always skint.
    Which one of these is working class?
     
  4. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22007058

    May help.

    For Clarification. Blair's Labour Party completely abandoned anyone in the north of England, its traditional core voters in Scotland and Wales. It had little interest in the lives of the poor of Barking or Dagenham or Southend. It left them feeling marginalised and disenfranchised. It led to UKIP and daft nationalism.

    It continued the persecution of trade unions leading to a weak underpaid underemployed workforce that we see today. Work insecurity and low pay are his legacy. He did as much damage to this country as his hero Thatcher. Neoliberalism is a vicious political theory that rewards the elites and demonises the poor. Hopefully we are seeing the beginning of the end. The election of Trump in America is a desperate shout that no one is listening to the working class. The emergence of a new Labour Party actually interested in the reasons the Labour Party was formed in this country mirrors it.


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  5. Mid

    Mido Well-Known Member

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    Corbyn would have.


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  6. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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  7. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Corbyn definitely would have. Nicola Sturgeon would have. Caroline Lucas would have. Maybe even Ruth Davidson would have.


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  8. tyr

    tyrone1 Banned Idiot

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    Based on the fact that people were been gassed and attacked with chemicals in there. Own country
     
  9. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting BBC article that JC. Not seen it before. , You could argue that it is evidence that it is the 'working class' that is abandoning the 'working class' as it only represents 14% of the total working population. I don't hold with the argument that parties "demonise the poor", rather that they target the groups most likely to Vote for them at election time and so , wrongly, IMO, tailor their policies to maximise the vote rather than seek to improve the lot of all sectors of society . Hence the reason that mainstream parties seem to be trying to keep the disparate groups that make up the 'middle classes' happy.
    In some ways though, the survey demonstrates that , aside from the unassailable elite group, there IS increasing social mobility, as demonstrated by some posters on here where inter-generational upward mobility has taken place.

    There will always be some who, for whatever reason, fail to take any opportunity to better themselves and spend their lives blaming others for their misfortune just as there are some who through no fault of their own find themselves in poverty and trapped in a situation that should not exist in a relatively affluent country such as the UK. I would respectfully suggest that it is the latter of the two that should be the focus of attention. You may or may not agree, but some people are beyond help.
    Who was it that said "if the wealth of the world was suddenly divided equally amongst the inhabitants within a few weeks there would be millionaires and paupers " ? I suspect, given the mix of the gullible and dishonest, the bright and the not so bright, given human nature it is probably true.
     
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  10. Young Nudger

    Young Nudger Well-Known Member

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    Our - police - NHS - schools etc etc have never been funded better than when Tony Blair was Prime Minister.
    And it's also worth remembering that when Blair came to power the public services were absolutely on its backside after 18 years of Tory rule.
     
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  11. Redstar

    Redstar Well-Known Member

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    You claimed he saved millions of lives. Whilst I'll grant you that saddam was indeed killing his own folk, nasty lovely person that he was, I'd venture that the deaths caused directly and indirectly by the illegal Iraq war easily outsrip these.
     
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  12. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    You are right about public services after Thatcher. It's always the way after a conservative government. It doesn't excuse the rest.


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  13. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Interesting bit of research though a lot of it was done before the impact of the economic crash. Seems a better fit for the modern world than the old Heath, Jowell and Curtice A-E classification.

    I agree that some people are either beyond or don't want help. We would have different views of demonisation of the poor. I don't especially like him but Owen Jones book Chavs is very good on the subject if you get the time.


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  14. tyr

    tyrone1 Banned Idiot

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    So are you suggesting that we should. Have just stood back and done nothing

    I proud. Immensely proud that we took a stance against. Evil
     
  15. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

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    Only another 63 years to wait until the facts surrounding the "suicide" of the WMD expert
    David Kelly are de-classified and then we might understand the justifications behind the Blair and Bush
    decision to invade Iraq.
     
  16. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    "You may think that I couldn't possibly comment".


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  17. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that the way to stop one innocent person from being murdered is to murder another innocent person but that's just me
     
  18. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    Part 2... Actually you mention Dagenham (where I was born). My dad was the son of a Durham miner. My mum came from a poor part of the East End of London. They met in the war when they were both in the RAF stationed near London. After the war ,my dad went to night school and became a GPO apprentice engineer then left to work as a clerk in the civil service. He studied hard whilst he worked and brought up a family at teh same time and this meant we moved each time he got promoted. I passed my 11 plus and went to Grammar school... ended up leaving with A levels and decided not to go to Uni and worked in Banking and Insurance for a few years.. Got bored and had loads of different (low paid) jobs- Late on in life I got some IT qualifications and got a well paid job for a few years enabling me to save and retire here. I met my wife as we ended up in Barnsley when my dad got his final promotion. My wife came from a poor mining family -rented terrace, outside toilet etc.- in Barnsley (Her dad got arthritis from working in a wet pit and eventually ended up wheelchair bound on disability pay) She passed her 11 plus and spent her life as a teacher.
    Another example of two different paths with similar outcomes i.e. In one generation moving from poor working class to middle class. I think it is probably more difficult now that it was in those days but my daughter and son in law will be starting from a position further on than we did, both with the social circles they move in, the chosen career paths that were open to them and also will inherit property, something neither of us did (I was estranged from my dad when he remarried after my mother died when I was still at school) I am a strong believer that many (not all) people have the power to shape their own destiny which I suppose makes me a conservative with a small 'c' as I do not believe that belief means abandoning those who are unable to improve their lives.
    Wealth and Power seems to breed a sense of 'self-entitlement' leading to indifference as to the suffering of others and that is where the main problem lies, the opther being that, as I have already said some people see themselves as permanent 'victims' - their problems being everyone else's fault.
     
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  19. tosh

    tosh Well-Known Member

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    If his principles are to save natural resources and jobs then you are probably correct
     
  20. Ext

    Extremely Northern Well-Known Member

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    It's a;most as if he'll say whatever's needed at the time to further his own ambitions.
     

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