Police came in then

Just football then?
How the hell can we make organisers keepers of the law? Make everyone have papers stating everything they have done in their lives?
Ffs might as well go and live in China with all the restriction on a FREE society if you and your sympathisers had their way.
I'd rather stick to the innocent until proven otherwise thanks very much.don't want to live in a society where I'm searched evey other yard.

 

Surely the way forward was to pick the 2 idiots off when the bus arrived, bang em up somewhere and then put them back on the bus on the outskirts of Oldham after the game

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

...can somebody tell me when the law was changed to allow the police to turn back a coach full of people who have committed absolutely no offence and there are no reasonable grounds for the police to suspect a crime is about to be committed? I know the High Court deemed 'kettling' to be lawful in spite of the fact the actions fit exactly the wording of unlawful imprisonment but at least they only tend to use that tactic when violence has already broken out in the vicinity.
The presumption of 'innocent until proven guilty' and arresting someone only if suspected of having committed a crime seems to have vanished. The courts seem to back the police every time they exceed their powers nowadays.

Policing by consent?? Don't make me laugh. Becoming more like a Police state every day.

So if the coach driver refused to turn round would he have been arrested for obstruction? Seems like the police would have then been guilty of 'engineering' the situation. Can anyone sue the police to get their ticket money and coach fare refunded? Does the coach firm get compensated for loss of earnings? After all they are innocent parties who have incurred losses though police action?

 

Let me just change one word in your post and we are now talking about alcohol sales in shops...

How the hell can we make supermarkets keepers of the law? Make everyone have papers stating everything they have done in their lives?
Ffs might as well go and live in China with all the restriction on a FREE society if you and your sympathisers had their way.
I'd rather stick to the innocent until proven otherwise thanks very much.don't want to live in a society where I'm searched evey other yard.


As you can see no its not just football. It happens in every walk of life where the person selling a product is required to make sure it doesn't sell products to certain people.

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

There is reasonable grounds isn't there? Two banned people on a coach going to a football match. Vast majority are innocent but two cents have caused them all to be turned back.

 

You forgot to send everybody out of the supermarket without their goods cos two people have illegally tried to buy alcohol

 

Well those two are clearly breaking the terms of their banning order, so that would seem to be a sensible answer, but we don't know exactly what happened, so until we know all the facts it's difficult to comment. One thing is for certain, there will be a lot of understandably angry people on that coach. Time for the SLOs to get involved?

 

I never ever claimed that the full coach load should be sent back. I don't agree with that at all. I actually said that my proposed law change would be a way of making sure this DOESNT happen.

 

the plod could do a million things differently. but lets face it if 2 idiots didnt get on a coach 48 other law abiding fans could be having a drink now before the game.

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

So if I am in a cinema and a couple of people cause trouble do I also get thrown out for the cinema along with entire audience. A the police needed to do, as someone already said is to remove the two guilty people and allow the coach to continue. What happens with a drunk on a plane ? Do they kick everyone off?

There ARE NO reasonable grounds to assume the other people on the coach are accessories to the illegal actions of the two. As I said, innocent until proven guilty.

 

The banning order may only ban them from attending games themselves rather than travelling. ..

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

Who are you arguing with?

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

Sorry I just changed to threaded view. I never justified turning a whole coach back. All I said is they do have grounds that a crime is about to be commited. Not by everyone but by some.

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

"Who are you arguing with" ...You as you appear to be an apologist for OTT policing and their lack of common sense.

 

p
So you would change the law because the police couldn't be bothered to uphold the law on two people breaking a banning order.some laws are common sense some are just ridiculous. Sledgehammer and nuts spring to mind

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

OK crossed posts there. Do you think the majority and the coach company have grounds to demand compensation from the police for financial losses incurred? IF they don't they blo*dy well should have IMHO !

 

You seem to be assuming I'm on the side of the idiots :wrong
The fact is 48 fans have been sent home by the POLICE

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

Or do the passengers on the bus have grounds for compensation against the bus company for not knowing who they were carrying, then again the problem lies with the two with banning orders, not the police, had they not been on the bus this wouldn't have happened.

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

Well firstly I can't see how both the coach company AND the fans can as surely if the fans still have to pay then the coach company hasn't lost out whereas if the fans didn't pay then they didn't lose out. Then I don't know whether legally they have a right to compensation anyway but morally they should be able to claim something at least as they've done nowt wrong. That's why I think coach companys should have an obligation to check the banned list and why it should be freely available as at the moment nobody knows who's banned apart from the banned people so how can anyone else be to blame for them getting on a coach? I wonder whether that some would be able to be used as evidence in a lawsuit. How can innocent fan A be punished for travelling with banned fan B when the police never told anyone that he was banned?

 

The police have upheld the law on two fans. they have turned their coach back. Simple as that really.

I am suggesting a change to ensure that in future someone is responsible for making sure they don't get on the ******* bus in the first place.

I refer you back to everyone having to prove they are over 18 to buy alcohol. Sledgehammer nut?