Police came in then

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

Well, you could argue that they haven't thrown out the entire audience, they have only thrown out one party travelling together. All the other Reds fans will be okay. You could also argue that if you were in a group of people trying to get into the cinema and two of your group were banned from the particular cinema it would be highly likely that you would all be turned away.

For the record, before I get called an 'apologist', I think what the police have done, or at least what we understand the police to have done, because we haven't had the full story, is wrong and they should instead have arrested the two for breach of their banning order and allowed the others to travel on. But I would also expect the rest of that coach to be directing some of their anger towards the two who have spoilt the day for the rest of them, because, overbearing police or not, had they not tried to do something that was breaking the law everybody else would have been okay.

 

And I'm arguing on the matter in hand as the law stands now.

 

Then you are arguing with yourself surely as I have already said that the rest of the coach is innocent

 

And I refer you to there is a law to stop them travelling.they have broken it and the police as today have sent innocent people!e home because of it.your story is IF and therefore irrelevant to what has happened

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

I can understand almost everything that has allegedly taken place, even if I don't agree with what happened. What I can't get my head around is why, when the bus was instructed to return to Barnsley, were those on board who are entirely innocent not allowed to get off the bus? There appears to be no rhyme or reason for this to me and it actually infringes on their civil liberties.

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

If we were talking 'Justice' then anyone on the coach (apart from the two) would be compensated but the Law is about 'Process' rather than Justice and the Courts tend to side with the establishment on these matters.
Still cannot understand how holding a pregnant woman for 5 hours with no water, food or toilet (Kettling) was deemed legal by the High Court not to mention office workers trying to get home caught in the 'trap'. I don't blame most Coppers as many do a good job but arrogant Commanders backed up by the Home Office make it like a 3rd World Police state sometimes

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

The only explanations for it for me could be the reaction of some of the others on the coach. If a number of others tried protecting the two selfish cnuts and tried hiding them or started causing trouble then I can kind of understand turning it back a little bit. I'm not saying that happened I'm just saying its the only way I could possibly see it making any sense. Personally think they should have took the two off and given them a few hours in a police van

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

Compensation should come from the two banned idiots who have selfishly spoilt a day out for 48 real fans.

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

The two would not have been allowed to buy tickets and if they had the Cinema would be at fault so your argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

 

i know you are on the side of who ever isnt the police. those 48 fans have done nothing wrong expect been victims of 2 persons idiocy and selfishness. as i said the police could have managed the situation differently but they shouldnt have been put in that position full stop.

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

Is that a reply to me tekkytyke?

If so I believe you are wrong, if they have a banning order they know they shouldn't travel and are putting everyone at the risk of this happening.

If they were not on the bus the bus would not have been turned around by the police.

Therefore they should compensate everyone else on the bus and take responisibility for their selfish actions.

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

It's just crazy isn't it. It's as if the police were accusing all the other passengers of colluding with the 2 in question, when the vast majority of them probably didn't even know they were banned and possibly had never met the two people before. But as you know, civil liberties and the policing of football fans doesn't entirely go hand in hand. All it takes is for you to have had one pint, as most blokes going to a footy match will have had, because then when you argue back to the police you are an agressive football hooligan under the influence of alcohol and they will do what they ruddy well like.

 

So we have a police force that's forced to take drastic measures on innocent people as they shouldn't have been put in that position by two petty criminals?
If I'm against as your implying anything the police do then your an apologist for them on the same scale.
Im not against everything the police do believe it or not ,its just the illegal and immoral things I don't like.

 

Re: I know they use 'public order' as an excuse BUT.....

Wum

 

"an apologist" nice use of a term to jusitfy your own opinion. might as well use the old "il say what i like ive paid me money" line

yes we do exactly have that, a police force who have been put in a position because 2 criminals have decided to commit a crime. and therefore directly involving 48 innocent people who have done nothing wrong and should not have been punished.

 

Don't like it back?then don't give it out in the first p!ace.yes your probably right I should feel sorry for our highly trained and equipped police force when two petty criminals piss them off they should take it out on the law abiding majority.
Had more than my say on subject .big brothers well on the way

 

But the only illegal thing we know for sure is that two people were illegally attempting to gain entry to a football ground when they have a court order banning them. I think, and I may be wrong about this, that the banning orders extend to the vicinity of a ground on matchday too. If the coach was stopped, these people searched and these people had match tickets on them they were showing intent to break the law. In fact, getting on to a coach with the destination being a football ground is breaking their banning order.

Once we get the full story I am sure we'll agree that the police stretched current legislation to an unreasonable point in turning the rest of the fans away. But I haven't organised a coach to an away match, so I don't know what the rules are. Certainly organised coaches have to liaise with the police at some point and can't just turn up at away grounds. I am sure they will be told, for example, that if any alcohol or weapons are found on the coach the coach would be turned round, so maybe they are also given the same threat if people were found on there with banning orders. If not, then it is difficult for the police to argue that it is the responsibility of the organisers to determine whether the people they are selling tickets to have the banning orders and it is therefore unreasonable for everyone else on the coach to have been turned away, unless something else went off that we don't know about.

 

dont like it? i thought we were having a resonable debate. as for feeling sorry i think you misread my post, no one is feeling sorry for the plod, they've acted in a way thats caused upset and anger to folk on here let alone on the coach itself. it seems that you are unwilling to see the root cause of the issue however and as such its a waste of time really.

 

Fair comment.
And as you say until the full facts emerge its all speculation.
But my point is that there will be many innocent people who have had their freedom infringed today and surely we have laws or common sense approaches to deal with the immediate incident without aforthought to the innocent fans some of which I presume will be Children.
As I said earlier IMO they have taken a sledgehammer to crack a nut imo.
Whether that is the price worth paying is another story but its certainly not policing with consent imo.