Reality Check

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Red Rain, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    The club that we support represents a small town that has seen better days. Since the closure of the mines, it has struggled financially. It is neither big enough nor wealthy enough to generate the funds that are needed to support a football team in the Championship. For those who struggle to appreciate the reality of the Championship, it is the league that separates the haves from the have nots. Consequently, it is the league with the greatest diversity. There are clubs in the Championship with players that have played in the Premier League, and because of the parachute payments, with the funding to continue paying those players. There are clubs with rich owners, who have the funds to acquire and pay Premier League quality players, owners who make Patrick Cryne look like a kid with a begging bowl. There are clubs who average 30,000 crowds, and whose grounds are not in need of structural repairs. All of these things add up. There are clubs in the Championship with far bigger budgets than we have. Last year we were reputed to have a budget that was in the top four in the division. This year, our budget will be in the bottom six.


    What this means is that if we can stay clear of the bottom six, we have exceeded our expectations. It means that if we continue to have a budget in the bottom six, and our league position is outside the bottom six, we will have exceeded longer term expectations. If you think that you are supporting a club that will ever do anything other than struggle to compete in this league because of financial restrictions imposed by our town and its economic problems, then you are deluding yourselves. If you think that there is a Saudi or Russian billionaire wanting to invest in our football club, then you are deluding yourselves. There are clubs that would be a far better vehicle for their ambitions than a club than represents a small town with economic problems.


    Because the club cannot rely on the town for finance, Mr Cryne has had to dip into his pocket. He has also had to develop a business plan that gives the club a hope for the future, a hope of being self-sufficient. That plan means that we sign young players, either from our own academy or from lower division clubs, even more desperate for finance than we are. Young players are often willing to accept lower wages than the market indicates, provided they are given a good education and have a good chance of developing their game by playing in the first team, and at a decent level. Both the player and the club benefit from the arrangement. The player hopes that because his talents are in the shop window most weeks that he may be sold to a Premiership team. If that does not happen, he hopes to move on to a better paid job at the end of his contract. The club hope to benefit by having a player with potential playing every week with a potential to sell that player on at a profit. The profit is there to supplement the limited support that the town and it fans can provide. Of course, young players are inconsistent, they make mistakes and they require a lot of patience from staff and fans alike. But given our position, what viable alternative do we have.


    As we are seeing now, the problem is that fans grow fond of players. They do not want to see those players sold, especially when it means that our team is obviously weaker as a result. In the current example, whether you like it or not, January was the ideal time to sell. The players would have walked away for nothing in July and our league position meant that we were close to being safe for another year, and speaking personally, that was only ever my focus for our first season back in the Championship. I just do not buy the argument that we put the whole lot on RED and hope for the best. That is not how a responsible business is run, and at the end of the day, our rescue from Administration proved that the business has to be run responsibly.


    The start of next season represents the start of a new business cycle, a new chapter of our business plan. Because of the number of young players that we will be signing, we will have to be patient. The cycle does not end at the end of the season though. It ends when the players that we sign during the summer are sold for profit, move on at the end of their contract, or do not have their contracts renewed by the club. Looking back, our last business cycle began when we signed the players that have been selling this season. Patrick Cryne was required to fund those signings from the capital he introduced into the club, and the donations that he made. The club has moved on, because it will not need any funding from Mr Cryne at the start of the next business cycle because of the astute investments the club made at the start of the last one.


    There are those who will always feel betrayed when their favourites are sold, but if you remember that the club is more important than any player, is becomes easier to bear.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
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  2. Redstar

    Redstar Well-Known Member

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    Football with hope and dreams is an illogical waste of time.

    What you are saying is that hopes and dreams ought to be forgotten ergo supporting the likes of Barnsley is a waste of time.

    It's also illogical that when 7th you are still "satisfied" with finishing 21st.

    You might have been in August but it's going to be a disappointment wherever we finish now despite overall it meeting our hopes in August as dreams take longer to die than reality does to bite.

    Perhaps we all need lessons in being ruled by heads rather than hearts then we won't care as much. There's a danger in that though that we'd all find better things to do with our time and money.
     
  3. twi

    twillo Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the exceeding expectations of finishing above the bottom six; that even backs the point up we should have gone for that sixth spot in January instead of settling for so little.

    The club have let the fans down this January.
     
  4. DusThaNoIII

    DusThaNoIII Well-Known Member

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    **** holes that have seen better days one and all and still in the premier league

    Act like a loser and you'll be a loser.
     
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  5. tosh

    tosh Well-Known Member

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    They haven't let me down. I am quite firmly in the Red Rain camp as I would rather have a club to support than none at all. Barnsley may one day have a renaissance as a town and then who knows.
     
  6. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

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    Man who gets discounted season tickets criticises supporters (again) for not wanting to pay more.

    Tell you what, why don't you forego your discount next season and help Patrick claw back that million pound loss that he's overseen. Again. It's only logical.
     
  7. loy

    loyal tyke mb Active Member

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    Two thought provoking posts illustrating that football is a business on one level and a source of hopes and dreams on the other. For me Hecky and all connected with the club have done amazing to get us to 7th in the Championship on a low budget. Being a Barnsley man Hecky has developed a fully committed set of young players eager to improve. I hope he finds the appetite to replicate the early season form and style of play which attracted the attention of other clubs and the interest in our players before next season. Barnsley is larger than Burnley and if people pay for their season ticket they deserve to support a club with a level of ambition and purpose. Surely Hecky deserves backing from the club and given the opportunity to have a 2 year plan to dream again. Final league placing this season is not as significant as keeping the manager and this group of players together as much as is possible.
     
  8. andytyke

    andytyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    So safe to say when a unique / rare opportunity arises to go against everything you have posted and change the fortunes of the club forever you should really take that opportunity and go for it, we may never get a chance like we had this year again

    But were just happy to struggle and be the same little Barnsley. Why on earth didn't little Burnley sell all their best players In January the first year they went up.
     
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  9. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

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    There is no group of players.
     
  10. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    I have supported BFC for 50plus years. During that time I can think of only 3 teams that have caused me to hope for something better. The rest of the time has been average to desperate. But I still go to every home game, and I still renew my season ticket every season because I care. If being a realist included an acknowledgement of being average for ever, then surely I would not be turning up every other week. The club is part of my soul. It is part of me. I could no more walk away from the club because it was average, or worse, than I could cut off my right arm. I do not continue to support the team out of some illogical belief that we can win the Premier League. I go because it is my team and I believe that my season ticket helps it to survive and go on providing me with a place to go every second Saturday throughout the winter months, that and the occasional moment that are so emotional and so joyful that it makes the years of waiting worth while.

    You can reject logic if you want, it is entirely up to you. I have simply tried to explain why things are like they are, and why all the complaints and bellyaching can do nothing to alter the reality of our situation. This place has not been pleasant since our loss at Norwich, in fact it has not been great since January. The conspiracy theorists have had a field day. In the end, my piece describes how things are in the real world, the world where you need money to make a difference. In the real world, if you gamble, you have a chance of losing everything. If you want to know what that feels like personally, cash in everything that you own and add all your savings and put the whole lot on a horse. Not just an amount of money that you can afford to lose... the whole lot. Then when it loses you will know what it feels like to be John Dennis. Then you will know that it was not worth the risk that you took.
     
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  11. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    You really are a very angry man aren't you. I paid full price for 40 years and I watched the team when it was far worse than it is now. But that is not the point, you always seem to want to make things personal and I have no interest in responding in like manner. If you want to debate whether my logical view of all things BFC is wrong, then I will be only too pleased to accommodate you. If you just want a personalised argument, then try elsewhere.
     
  12. Redstar

    Redstar Well-Known Member

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    As we keep saying to you when you invoke the "logic" argument, supporting BFC is in itself an utterly illogical pastime.

    It is only hopes and dreams that keep people attending at ever increasing cost.

    We all understand the difficulties. But we also look on with disappointment of how this season is panning out.

    What your piece tells us is that watching Barnsley FC is an utterly illogical pastime.
     
  13. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

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    I'm not trying to have a go at you but you sound like a shareholder in the club rather than a fan.

    I think we all understand most of what you said & you make a lot of sense but this season was a one off shot at something that's only happened once in our clubs history.

    We had two trips to Wembley, several Sky TV appearances & most importantly over £5m in the bank for Alfie Mawson & roughly £7m through the Stones sell on.

    We would've got a substantial fee for James Bree in the summer anyway due to his age so we likely wouldn't have lost out on much by holding onto him.

    So basically it's anything from £500k - £1m for Winnall & £2m - £3m for Hourihane we may have missed out on by gambling on going for promotion.

    To me that was a gamble worth taking especially when we'd already unexpectedly made so much money in the past 12 months.

    One season in the top flight changes everything, look at Burnley, them parachute payments completely change everything.

    And it sent out a clear message that the club lacks ambition, where's the incentive for Scowen & Watkins to sign new deals? Or Roberts, MacDonald, Yiadom etc to extend?

    It's impossible to know for certain but the captain been flogged & us falling from challenging for the play offs to mid-table mediocrity would certainly influence my decision if I was a young talented player with offers on the table.
     
  14. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

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    Not angry at all. Not being personal either. I am just responding to your criticism of supporters. I find it a bit rich that you have said on a weekly basis that supporters won't pay the going rate for Championship football and expect Cryne to fund it, when you're paying less than they are. You might have paid full price for 40 years but for about 30 of this football was a lot cheaper than it is now.
     
  15. Jimmy cricket

    Jimmy cricket Well-Known Member

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    Selling half your team and not replacing them is illogical. This happened last time in the championship under Hill and led to our eventual relegation. Clearly lessons have not been learned.

    If we finish 17th or 18th it will both be triumph and a missed opportunity. The two are not mutually exclusive. You adjust your targets as the season progresses any business does the same. At the start of the season avoiding relegation had to be the target. By January our target had to be to finish in the top 6 given the potential 100 million quid that this could have been earned. We could have gone for this target without spending any money. We have both succeeded and failed.

    To suggest that holding player to contracts is illogical seems a strange position. To suggest that not selling them amounts to putting it 'all on red' is just wrong. We got a 12 million quid windfall in August no one is suggesting that we spruik that away. That protects the club and Mr Cryne.

    Football is about dreams and romanticism. Supporting a small town club is illogical. We should all support successful clubs that win stuff and play exciting football. A cold approach is meaningless and does not work.
     
  16. Ors

    Orsen Kaht Active Member

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    This post is bang on the money. There is much truth in what you say Red Rain, but this season was different. £12M in the bank leaves enough to repatriate Mr Cryne's c.£7M and still have £5M in the club's coffers. For once we did not need to sell - and especially for the limited amount that the residual value of the soon-to-be-out-of-contract players must have brought in. Remember Suarez being required to do another year at Liverpool? For what it's worth I still think playoffs would have been unlikely, but I'd have loved to see the side (as it was) having a bash at it. Let's face it - the previous decade has often been dire enough.

    You claim to have been in management, so you must know that when a business aims only to stand still it goes backwards. This season was a unique opportunity to go for it with limited downside risk. Instead we have ripped the guts out of the side and seriously disenchanted the supporters who are not among the diehards.
     
  17. tosh

    tosh Well-Known Member

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    Not saying you are wrong OK, but how would you have got our leavers to stay and not only stay but continue to perform as they had been doing? In work I have met a number of people who accepted more pay to stay and then regretted their decision everyday when other opportunities to leave did not emerge.
     
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  18. SuperTyke

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    1 they are contracted to do so.
    2. Their career will be harmed by playing poorly
     
  19. Glo

    GloucesterRedsBigBro Well-Known Member

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    For once in the myriad of words you've tried to bamboozle posters with, the last few words of your post say it all, and i really don't think Cryne understood this when he devised this plan, "the club is more important than any player" In my opinion' and i've said it times many, it is not his or the managers job to sign and develope players purely so said players can move on at will to boost their personal finances at the first opportunity. It should be his and the managers job to sign players to progress the club and to keep faith with its thousands of customers.
     
  20. Ors

    Orsen Kaht Active Member

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    Let's make one thing clear. I absolutely get that they would be off anyway at the end of the season. But they were contracted until that time. So we say "you stay" - they have to stay. I get that that brings in a potential motivation problem. But the better of them (which I suspect would include Conor) would say okay - I have to knuckle down and I get a free transfer move in the summer - when maybe more clubs would be interested, including Premier League ones. We would have had the option of voluntarily compensating them for the lost additional salary in order to improve their ongoing motivation, or we could have just told them to suck it up until the summer. But either way, and however that turns out, the club would have been able to say "we did all we could". Right now we have a team that is in end of season mode, a manager who may well be disenchanted (and some of his utterances have hinted at that) and the club can not say it did everything to further our chances.
     

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