So the Sovereignty defending Brexiteers. want to prevent erm, Sovereignty..

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Tarntyke, Aug 28, 2019.

  1. shenk1

    shenk1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm our lasses carer so work 24 hours a day including while on here....look, I'm alert to her needs while typing this (she's asleep :) )....who says men can't multi task ;)
     
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  2. Ton

    Tonjytyke Well-Known Member

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    In fact, the entire purpose of what developed into the EU was to prevent another war starting in Europe. It's been really successful up to now but, hey, we don't want any of that peace rubbish!!!
    Apparently
     
  3. Dalestykes

    Dalestykes Well-Known Member

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    It's more than that though isn't it. I was born in the sixties so grew up in that post war generation that saw Germans as essentially 'bad guys' whilst us plucky Brits and our American cousins were the 'good guys'. When I grew up and realised the world wasn't quite so black and white you begin to question those attitudes.

    I now have a Daughter in Law that is German and two Grandchildren born there. So I've inherited a lot of new German in laws. The thing that discomforts me is that having now spent a lot of time in Germany meeting many people, I've come to realise that Germany is one of the few Countries in the world that offers the best hope for liberal democracy. Indeed it often seems to be the only bulwark against the increasingly totalitarian movement in world Politics whether that is Russia, China, the USA and increasingly the UK.

    A long long way from what I was taught as a kid and pretty dispiriting.
     
  4. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    Me ;-)
     
  5. troff

    troff Well-Known Member

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    You are comedy gold pal. Or you would be if it wasn’t such a catastrophe that there’s so many like you.
     
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  6. Trickster Two Six

    Trickster Two Six Well-Known Member

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    Which brings me deliciously to the end of my lesson remainers, but lets just summarise;

    You've glossed over/denied/are in denial about dear leaders links to our enemies and written it all off as right wing propaganda - no it isn't.
    You've claimed that we only have eu laws on food additives - no we don't
    You've claimed that we can chose who comes here and who doesn't - no we cant.
    You fail to understand that people object to the expansion of the common market into a governing state with it's own parliament, currency, court, laws when this expansion takes precedence over those of our own country. You write it off instead as racism, little Englander, too thick to understand what they're voting for.

    Out of my depth: no.
    Giving you all a lesson on how ill informed, entrenched and in denial you are: yes.

    Oh and I'll just end on Trump - Tax cuts, unemployment at a historic low, more jobs available than people to fill them,wage growth faster in low income jobs to attract/retain the workforce,wages outpacing inflation.
    Making America great again whilst you want to remain aligned to a declining economy.

    Here endeth remainers, moan away, lunch break over.
     
  7. shenk1

    shenk1 Well-Known Member

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    The sad thing is that you really believe this.
     
  8. Ton

    Tonjytyke Well-Known Member

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    In the early 80's, me and the missus backpacked around Europe for a few months, ending up in Israel on a kibbutz. If I learned one thing from our travels, after meeting hundreds of people of many many nationalities it's that predominately, we're all pretty much the same. Extremes varying from Germans complaining about working conditions and pay (just like we do) to young Israeli women who lived in the same community as old women who had been in Auschwitz, laughing as they did Hitler impressions. (Adolf has only got one ball etc) The stereotypes the "powers that be" want us to believe are just not true.
     
  9. Vesp77

    Vesp77 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's possible to miss the mark any more than this.
     
  10. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    First, some of us have been civil! Second up, there is less rosy news about the American economy - especially if you look beyond the Trump-generated headlines.
     
  11. DEETEE

    DEETEE Well-Known Member

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    This thread is now pushing 600 posts.

    Theres conjecture presented as facts
    Facts presented as conjecture
    Opinions debated as face and visa versa.
    The usual the average joe is too thick to make these kinds of decisions.
    Theres screeching, hysteria and some really arrogant retorts.

    Yet no one either side of the debate has actually said anything new.
    Just rehashed the same tired arguements.
     
  12. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    You're utterly clueless. And you just proved it.
     
  13. Red

    Red-Taff. Well-Known Member

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    CR - you're on shaky ground -
    what you're saying is that if you don't agree or don't understand why someone votes the way they do they are 'ignorant' or allowing themselves to be 'patronised' or have an 'I'm all right Jack attitude'
    If you don't accept that each individual has the right to choose how they vote, even if you think that individual has got it wrong and you start intimidating them then you're on the way to becoming a bully.

    I never mentioned Hitler or Merkel or UKIP - why did you feel the need to mention them? Have you mis-represented my message to justify criticising it?
    Because without your mis-representation there was nothing to criticise was there?

    In my message I tried to explain how my family heritage had influenced my decision to vote in the EU Referendum - was that problematic if it doesn't concur with the way you vote?
     
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  14. Trickster Two Six

    Trickster Two Six Well-Known Member

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    Some of you have, thank you.
     
  15. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    Deetee, to an extent I agree with you and I'm as guilty as any. However, when you have a guy on here bigging up Donald Trump in the same breath as arguing on Brexit then is there any wonder that some of us lose our rag?
     
  16. troff

    troff Well-Known Member

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    Do they actually let you near heavy machinery and explosives? Good grief. Do you really believe that or is this some kind of parody?

    Trump is also donating some magic beans to Brazil so the areas of forest lost to fires regrow in ten minutes... it’s true. Donald Trump is going to better the world for everyone.

    One thing though, genuine question. If Trump is generating ‘more jobs available than people to fill them’ - presumably you see opportunity (and likelihood) that Johnson will achieve the same?

    Well in that eventuality, when we have more jobs than people to fill them, what are we going to do with the job vacancies?
     
  17. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    No, you didn't. You suggested that because of Germany's past you were wary of them now and intimated they are trying to dominate Europe through the EU.
     
  18. Dalestykes

    Dalestykes Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to think so but would accept it's more hope than expectation!

    Far be it for me to wake up the Climate Change deniers yet again but the issue for me is; would we like the human race, and our Children and Grand children, to survive and live in relative peace and harmony? If the answer is anywhere near yes, then we really need to stop destroying the world in which we live. Neo-liberal economics will not do that - quite the reverse.
    I also fear that the ability of western liberal democracies to deal with Climate Change is particularly problematic as well. Which party is ever going to stand and win on a platform of less or even reduced growth in people's living standards? I can't see how you can tackle many of the things that need to be done/changed without controlling them. Energy, transport etc...So the hope is that we come to accept that private interests, who for obvious reasons run these enterprises principally for their shareholders not for the common good, have to be replaced by state control. Sounds pretty awful to some I can genuinely see that. At one stage I did think many of these new privatised industries could be 'managed' through regulation, but the last 30 years suggests not.

    A return air flight to Athens for £49!! I mean really!!

    Market failure in Housing, Transport, energy etc etc not just in the quality/value of the service (can easily be debated either way) but the contribution to the destruction of the planet (not really up for debate).

    Yours

    K Marx!

    ps as I say "more hope than expectation".
     
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  19. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    For the majority of Germans, the war was a two-edged sword. Hitler was only ever voted for by a minority of the population in free elections - even with threats of violence in the 1933 election he only got ~44% of the vote, but was able to use elected "useful idiots" to pass the Enabling Act (many of whom were killed by means of thanks shortly afterwards) and arrested others that would have opposed (Communists), but the German population at general paid a high price for the war crimes of their leaders.

    Over 1.2 million people were killed in the Battle of Berlin in 16 days. Roughly 3 times as many people from the entire UK as in 7 years of war in two theatres. Of these, roughly 1 million were civilians and over half never voted for Hitler in free elections.

    That does not account for the number of women in Eastern Germany that were gang-raped by the advancing Soviet army - including Helmut Kohl's wife, who was gang-raped at 12 and thrown out of a second floor window and left for dead - there are estimates of *over* 200,000 Russians babies born in the early part of 1946 as a result.

    So yes, the Germans under a minority leader seizing power killed a lot of people and the lessons of that should always be remembered, but they also had a terrible price to pay.

    Over the years since the war, those lessons have not been forgotten by the leaders and most of the survivors. This led to the formation of the EU with their traditional enemy of France and others so that peace can result and generations across the continent are not wiped out again. *But* there are small (and increasingly large) pockets of AFD support - usually in the same areas (Chemnitzer and others) where support for the Nazi party originally grew.
     
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  20. Ton

    Tonjytyke Well-Known Member

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    If we can't choose who comes here, why do we have to show our passports when returning from Benidorm, but not when travelling from, say France to Belgium? PS,. Not a rhetorical question.
     

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