The Academy

An erudite and thought-provoking piece, Mr Rain. I fear I would have to think about it for a long period of time before I could decide whether I agree with you or not. But as a starting point for debate it's certainly an interesting summary. I seem to recall Mr Conway saying something about continuing to support and upgrade the academy, though I haven't replayed the press conference, and I'm not certain.

I'm sure the new owners will be used to conducting the type of cost-benefit analyses you suggest, and I'd be surprised if this doesn't form part of their plan. But I think we also have to acknowledge that the shape and usefulness of it under the new owners might bear no resemblance to what we required from it in the past. It seems to me that the academy served the dual function of developing players for our own team, but also as an important source of income generation. I think that the latter has probably been more prominent in recent years, and as you say, there is a debate to be had about whether it has provided value for money in those terms. But under the new owners, it may be that the emphasis switches to boosting the players we bring through it for ourselves, rather than for other clubs higher up the pecking order. Hecky seemed to hint at this when discussing our recruitment policy the other day. This might result in even more expenditure on coaching staff and facilities. So maybe we have to look forward, as well as back when assessing the academy's continuing relevance. Something which I'm sure the new owners will do.

 

I'll keep the Academy. Who in their right mind would want to go back to the pre 1990s? It would be a backward step for the club. The training facilities which the Academy is a part of are the envy of other clubs and help attract players to the club.

 

Essentially, I wrote the piece for my own purposes and I had no intention of publishing it. However, I was challenged by Redstar in a different thread and I decided that I would accept his challenge by publishing what I had written for my own purposes. That purpose was to analyse in my own mind whether I thought the academy had worked for the club, whether it has had a positive or negative effect on cash flow and profit over the years. The piece tries to treat the academy as a separate profit centre. Essentially, the starting point for that discussion (the discussion that I was trying to resolve in my own mind) was the assumption that the running costs and the original set up costs of the academy could have been used as transfer fees if they had not been used to fund the academy. Both spending streams are performing the same function, they both aim to bringing fresh talent into the club. To compare investment in players through the academy, with investment in players via the transfer system is no more than assessing which is the better way (the more cost effective way) to acquire players. You must also remember that when a player leaves the academy at the age of 18, that the club has probably 2 or 3 more years of investment to make in him before he will be ready to hold down a place in the first team and that that period is much shorter for players acquired via the transfer system.

So over the 18 year period we have spent a total of £18m on players who have emerged from the academy. This is effectively their transfer fee. There were other capital costs which are harder to quantify, but those capital costs were financed by the sale of mature players who were at the top of their game. We sacrificed a current player who was achieving, for a promise of future potential talent. That £18m in transfer fees bought us John Stones, Mason Holgate and James Bree, who are very good players, but it has bought us few others that have come anywhere near their quality. We sold those players for about £14m, that is £4m less than the combined running costs of the academy over the same period. That calculation makes no allowance for the value added by the club after they graduated from the academy and it does not attempt to recover any of the capital cost of setting up the academy. Yet the academy is thought of as a huge success by most of the club's supporters. I cannot help but think that the reason is that they have never dared contemplate the figures that I have outlined.

I do not know how much the club has spent on other transfer fees over the last 18 years, nor how much it has received in transfer income from the sale of players acquired by this route. In order to make proper comparison with the academy, we would need to know those figures. Nevertheless, I think the piece has raised some interesting questions about the way that we have operated in the past, and the way that we should operate in the future under our new masters. I also make no apologies for the criticisms I have made of the North Stand. How it can make sense to build a huge stand and then leave it empty for week after week is beyond me.

 

Can someone summarise this thread please?

 

Where's that completely random figure been plucked from?

 

If John Dennis did it it's crap, if Patrick Cryne did its brilliant. Plus Cryne did it in impossible circumstances.

 

Why do you have to have another dig at Patrick Cryne ?

 

How is that a dig? Christ almighty.

 

Its a dig & you know it

 

Is it ballacks. Stop being so sensitive. End of conversation.

 

Chortle. How's things Tolstoy?

 

It was a dig at you not at Patrick Cryne.

He was saying that YOU slag off everything John Dennis did but praise everything Patrick did and didn't do which is how it comes across to me.

 

Lol. Thought that might make ya chuckle when you saw it.

Up and down at minute so trying to keep busy. Facebosh will obviously explain that.

Once things are out of the way we must get that beer or 2 session sorted.

 

Think you have got the wrong person my friend , I have never slagged anyone off on this board & hold John Dennis in high esteem , an apology will not go amiss , otherwise provide evidence of me slagging anyone please

 

As I said, it's just how it appears to me and evidentially to him too.

Edit:my mistake red CB. I thought you were red rain. I believe Conan's post was that red rain slags off everything JD but praises everything PC so was more of a dig at red rain and his post than it was a dig at pc

 

Where have I slagged anyone, evidence please

 

It was a comment on the attitudes of many on this board. Naming no names.

 

Balls you got a reply in before I managed my edit.

From my other post: edit: My mistake red CB. I thought you were red rain. I believe Conan's post was that red rain slags off everything JD but praises everything PC so was more of a dig at red rain and his post than it was a dig at pc

 

Thankyou , appreciate the apology , I take being classed as a Happy Clapper seriously lol

 

You need to get yourself an avatar. With you and red rain both having RED as your avatars and both ending up grey it's hard to tell you apart