Why is Britain so great?

You think that the Angles, Saxons, Danes, Jutes, Franks that were on mainland Europe didn't mix, they all stayed inside borders that didn't exist?

The Franks and the Gauls and the Saxons and the Burgundians and the Goths etc etc all mixed to become the French but the mixing didn't stop there and never will stop.

We are the same.

 

And Logie Baird's system was mechanical, it was a dead end and was not the system that became the TV we all know about.

 

Not forgetting the Vikings in France as well, Norman being derived from 'north men.'

 

I find pride in our country an odd thing.

You are essentially taking pride in the work of others.

You are trying to make yourself feel better by doing nothing.

Why should I be proud of the work of a man or woman to whom I have had no input?

I can be happy for someone that they have achieved, maybe I can be proud that I was part of a ecosystem that allowed that work to take place and succeed, but it's tenuous.

 

that's incorrect --

 

Thankfully this has turned into an interesting post and not the way i feared it might.

My view is that Britain isn't any greater than anywhere else on this planet. Certainly not in terms when compared to other nations, and sadly, many nations so close to us that are often derided, and more so since 2016.

As a country, we have some lovely coastline, we have some wonderful heritage and history (some good, some terrible), we've been pioneers of music & literature and we're steeped in culture and artistic performance. We have iconic buildings and symbolism. We have world famous names from just about every sector you can imagine and the calibre of food and drink has greatly increased in the last decade.

There is much to cherish, and be thankful for. But sadly, there are people in our country who feel that this makes our nation superior to others and this is where it turns ugly.

If I'm to judge our country now, the things we should cherish become of lesser value when compared to the hatred some quarters have to fellow human beings. How can we be proud when there are large numbers of people who are insular and see anything different as something to deride, mock, belittle and target? How can we feel proud that the country is so split into 2 very distinctive camps? How can we feel proud when so many of our people see neighbours as enemies?

This world is full of amazing places and amazing people. Many more amazing than anywhere in Britain. Many people friendlier than us British. That doesn't make them greater or superior. it just makes these countries what they are.

When I've travelled, I've seen huge amounts of national pride. But it's shaped so differently to here. Pride in showing their country. In revealing it to you. In letting you in on a secret. In helping you see beyond the norm. That's what I've always loved about travelling. Where national pride is shared with complete strangers and transferred. Warm welcomes, genuine smiles, going out of their way to help. I've experienced it from Indonesia to Jordan, Luxembourg to Ukraine.

Our issue is not our history, culture and heritage or what we've done in years gone by, but more how we express ourselves to others here and now. Our issue is we're an island, geographically and metaphorically.

 

I’m not suggesting they didn’t mix. Also those borders change dramatically over time.

I just find it amusing that because our border is more ‘fixed’, many Brits consider their Anglo Saxon heritage to be some kind of racial purity, when it’s the opposite.

 

I preferred Yogi Bear.

 

He's not British though

 

The border of the UK changes on average once a century since 1700 - in 1707 (UK of Great Britain), 1800 (UK of GB and Ireland) and 1922 (UK of GB & NI). Before that, it was more "fluid" due to invasions (wasn't Doncaster part of Scotland for a while?) and tribal conquests.

 

Perfectly put.

in my old age though, I have developed a sense of pride in my country, my county and my town, the achievements of my fellow Britons too.

by the same token, I am ashamed of some of our past and present.

That said, I don’t believe any of our problems are unique to us, much that I’m disgusted at Nationalism, it’s far from a uniquely British problem.

 

Still is

allegedly

 

Being an island is our greatest strength and our greatest weakness I think.

I used to find traveling very humbling in terms of the people I met. I once did a job in Pakistan around the time Daniel Pearl was murdered. Bit tense. We travelled around the country with interpreters and in one hill village they told me I’d been summoned by village elder. There he was surrounded by family and kids under an awning. I sat with him as more folk gathered round. The kids sat on my knee and played with my camera, he offered me tea and asked me questions about the west and the way of the world. There was a lot of nodding on both sides as we seemed to agree that people wished each other no ill will and it was all the fault of politicians. Then a bloke who ran a cigarette shack invited me in to serve a few customers. He gave me a local cap and told me that when I got back to the West I could wear it and say I was Taliban. Top men.

 

I've always felt that travel broadens horizons and offers insight you wouldn't get from afar. But having said that, it probably depends on your existing outlook to a large degree.

 

A bit like Greater Manchester; not really Manchester and not great.

 

So why then are so many, including some on here, ashamed of the actions of others, notably people born centuries ago with different values, who built an empire, kept slaves etc. Both actions and ideologies completely wrong but if you argue there is no logic in taking pride in other people work you had no input in then by the same argument, you must accept that it is equally illogical to feel guilty and ashamed of the actions of others that you had no input into.
It would be a soulless world we live in though, if we cannot feel some satisfaction, a little pride or some 'connection' when someone from your town, community, region or country achieves something extraordinary. Where else do we get our iinspiration from. that drives others to try and achieve anything.

BTW I am not saying you personally do feel shame or guilt by proxy but it is something that seems to be on the increase these days.
EDIT: Just seen your occupation on your avatar describing yourself as 'optimist' Really??

 

Presumably you're never proud of our football team then, given that you've had no input into their efforts.

Just happy to be part of the ticket purchasing ecosystem, I presume.

 

It's like anything - there are shades of grey to it all.

Am I proud about Brexit? The Tory Party? Nazi Salutes when 'guarding' statues? Absolutely not.

But I am proud about plenty of things - but they generally are really random. The 2012 Olympics was one. My wife getting a new job. Barnsley beating Forest. Local people clubbing together and helping find a missing dog. Winning a close game for my cricket club with lads who I've played with for years and having a beer afterwards. Insulating and boarding the garage. Plenty of stuff.

I guess maybe pride is the wrong word, it's just things that make me happy? Maybe there's not much that distinguish between the two.

 

Agree with most of that post. The positive sides of Nationalism (unfortunately now a dirty word connected with Fascism, racism and extreme right wing politics) are a sense of pride in ones own country and , like you say, an eagerness to preserve that which defines the country and its people and demonstrate and share with others. However, think the argument most people friendlier than Brits is debatable. there is a marked difference between populations of many major cities and the provinces. region to region there are differences. London (the perfect example being travel on the Underground) is an example fo extreme unfriendliness. Yorkshire people are great. 'English hating Scots' may be a generalisation but apart from pockets of anti English sentiment in parts of Dundee for example, the majority of Scots are as friendly as anywhere I have travelled. The French are great. As for the reputation of Parisians even the French call them aloof and unfriendly.
We used to gig in and around Valleys in South Wales and friendlier more hospitable group of people you could not find anywhere. North Wales ,on the other hand, in my experience was different with a distinct coolness and anti English feel (although that was many years ago so it may all be different.) I think people are people and you take them as you find them. Even making the distinction between friendliness when they want to sell you something in , say tourist areas, and genuine warmth and hospitality of a people I do not believe national traits are that influential or obvious. One thing though...I have genuinely found - with some exceptions - wherever I have gone from Mexico, around Europe. middle East, those with the least are those who are the most generous.

 

I tend to define friendly as being pleasant and kind, rather than overtly talkative. I've said before, on returning to Yorkshire, I've found people to talk at you rather than with you and as a result, it doesn't feel that its instinctively friendly. More invasive.

London is a big big old city and extremely diverse, and yes people keep themselves to themselves more on public transport, but it doesn't stop people being friendly and helping others if needed.

Likewise, you could visit places like Ukraine, the Baltics and Belgium and consider their attitude more brusque and less pleasant. But once you understand them better, appreciate the differences and when you scratch beyond preconceptions, I've found people in those nations wonderfully charming, warm and helpful. But of course as you say, people are people and we can't tar whole countries with being identikit societies.

Certainly Italy is a prime example of distinct localism.

And I agree to a large extent that many of the poorest are often of greater character and nature. I'd go further and say that many who have greater reason to be bitter and insular are actually more welcoming in their own way, even if it may take some time to define itself and translate between the prisms from one national to another.