Wigan fans View on the Appeal

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by andytyke, Jul 24, 2020.

  1. She

    Sheriff Well-Known Member

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    There's no denying that the circumstances are pretty unique in their case and, if I was a Wigan fan, I'd be pretty hacked off about it. The fact remains that they've gone through a legal process into administration, which brings the 12 point deduction as a result.

    The only relevant issue for the appeal now is whether anything falls within the narrow definition of force majeure that applies to this, and there's nothing I've seen to suggest that this is the case.

    The appeal is a shot to nothing for them, which they've taken, but not one I ever realistically expected to succeed. Time will tell, but I feel no less confident now than before, and nothing unexpected seems to have happened today in terms of timescales.
     
  2. andytyke

    andytyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I have absolutely no idea what the owner who put them into admin could of said in 1 hour that would be of any help to their appeal. He put them in admin as he couldn’t afford to service their dept what more can he say? I’m sure ain’t going to say well actually I’m skint and I duped the EFL into thinking I was loaded
     
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  3. Fre

    Freddiel Well-Known Member

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    Unless someone was at the hearing we have no idea what’s going on.

    All the posts on Twitter, our forum, Wigan’s forum, and anywhere else, are all speculation. We don’t even know for certain what reasons Wigan are putting forward to argue their case.

    Either way, here are my thoughts on some of the things we’ve heard about:

    The Bet
    Admin didn’t guarantee relegation. Unless Wigan have evidence to show that they were forced by their new owner to fix results in order to ensure this happened so the bet was paid, I can’t see how this could be considered.

    The Club didn’t know the new owner would put them in admin
    ...Surprise!

    Surely this could happen with a takeover at any club. If the prospective owner has proof of funds and passes all the EFL tests (which I assume are the same for all?) then once they’re the legal owner surely they can do what they like and see fit? Obviously it’s stupid, horrible for the fans etc. but what can the EFL do? I assume the fit and proper test has been approved by some external parties to ensure the EFL do their due diligence and all agree the test is appropriate? The only thing that I think could happen as a result of the appeal is that they recognise a change needs to be made and inform the EFL that this needs to be addressed.

    Force Majeure
    Defined in law (according to a google search) as ‘unforeseeable circumstances that prevent someone from fulfilling a contract’

    We aren’t privy to what contracts were signed by the new owners, or every possible scenario that’s considered as an ‘unforeseeable circumstance’. All the other ‘reasons’ and arguments about how unjust this is for poor Wigan are irrelevant. Unfortunate and **** for the fans, but irrelevant to the actual case.

    Given they can only use force majeure in the appeal, this is where the case is being fought and is probably based around different interpretations of contracts, rules and what the unforeseeable circumstance was. I doubt anyone - other than the lawyers and club representatives in that appeal - knows what evidence was put forward to back their case.
     
  4. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I was the same yesterday. Talking reasonably but they can’t accept that the model they have been following is part of the problem with football and what has made them vulnerable to the shithousery that they face.
     
  5. stairfoot.red

    stairfoot.red Well-Known Member

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    If it was the other way round and it was us deducted 12 points for going into admin you can bet your mortgage it would remain at 12 points this season after the appeal because it's not us you watch it will either be a reduced points deduction this season so Wigan stay above bottom 3 or 12 points next season take your pick but I've just got a sinking feeling we are going to get shafted because we are Barnsley FC and we always do.
     
  6. TitusMagee

    TitusMagee Well-Known Member

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    4pm Tues we will find out he says.
     
  7. kor

    korky Well-Known Member

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    personally i'm now expecting us remaining the 4th worst team in the efl
    if they're gonna do wigan this season and washday next that suits us as the rule abiding club, sorry for charlton but they are a car crash
    then i'd expect chief wiggum fans support in doing washday in they courts, quite frankly after this weeks comments i rather like wendy more than wiggum
     
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  8. Shy Talk

    Shy Talk Well-Known Member

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    Thats assuming they ARE gonna do Wigan this season
     
  9. dreamboy3000

    dreamboy3000 Well-Known Member

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  10. TitusMagee

    TitusMagee Well-Known Member

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    He just told everyone he enjoys interfering with dogs. Each to their own :D
     
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  11. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    I begin to think that this is going to go against us. On the merits of it, I can see only one outcome. But it was an independent disciplinary panel (presumably sourced for EFL by Sporting Resolutions) that heard the Sheffield Wednesday case and it is similar with Wigan's appeal. On the face of it, the EFL's rules about when the deduction should apply to Wigan are clear. But that outcome can't possibly stand with the Sheffield Wednesday decision. The Wednesday case can't be challenged unless the panel could be shown to have been what is called 'Wednesbury unreasonable' in the trade. In other words, that they made a decision which no reasonable tribunal, properly advised, could have made. If the decision was within the range of outcomes they could have applied (including the timing) then it would look difficult to challenge, to my eyes. That means that the panel would have to alter the Wigan decision in some way in order for it to be able to stand alongside the Sheffield Wednesday decision. Any alteration will sink us.

    People are talking of action against EFL. But the Sheffield Wednesday decision was properly farmed out to the independent disciplinary panel (even though we may not like the outcome). Wigan's case carried a right of appeal which has also quite properly been put out to the independent body. I begin to fear the worst.
     
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  12. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

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    According to this guy 24 clubs have gone into administration since 2010, 2 and half a year on average, if true that is a damming stat and surely proves EFL current FFP is not fit for purpose
     
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  13. Til

    Tilertoes Well-Known Member

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    I really don’t understand the emphasis on the efl. The Wigan owners themselves took the choice of selling to the new owners after what should have been due diligence.
    As a comparison, Patrick took his time to choose who to sell to and made sure that all his ducks lined up for the future of the club.
     
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  14. Manta

    Manta Member

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    The bit that isn’t being mentioned is the ‘fit and proper’ test, is a test as at Day 1, it can be expected to judge a character at the point in time ie at takeover / change of ownership. But it would appear that many believe it holds some element of enduring status which evidently it doesn’t. An owner could prove to be a dud in 10 days, 10 months or 10 years. It therefore is the organisation - in this instance WAFC to maintain their own house. If then the UK operations aren’t close enough to the owners and their thinking and day to day running then this can only be laid at the door of WAFC not the EFL. The EFL of course are badly run and badly governed without any outside interference :)
     
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  15. Ged

    Geddiswasguud Well-Known Member

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    There's no way ill stick up for the EFL, because they need a massive upgrade.
    However i can remember leeds a few seasons ago they attempted blocking a proposed takeover of leeds by a rather questionable chairmen (alleged arms deals tax avoidance etc) very shady. Unfortunately this went to court and (was it celinio) did take over our neighbours.
    It shows clubs can get what they want and our regulators are top trumped in court. The greedy outweigh the good. Proper rules required with proper regulation.
    I actually think sheff weds should be relegated 2 leagues, with bans on transfers a nd fines to go with it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  16. onemickybutler

    onemickybutler Well-Known Member

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    I’d relegate Wednesday into the National League if it were me........just an impartial view like....
     
  17. Tyke_67

    Tyke_67 Well-Known Member

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    Why stop at the National League? Aren't there any leagues below that?
     
  18. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    What intrigues me is the secret information the admin took to the appeal from the meeting with the ex owner .
    They’re hailing it as significant to their appeal but keeping it close to their chests for some reason .
    Cynic in me says it’s BS but just enough to give the committee an excuse to let them off .
    Obviously it would fail under scrutiny but then it’s job done .
    There’s no other reason why it’s a guarded secret if they have genuine evidence to absolve them they’d be shouting it from the rooftops .
    Shady evidence from a shady owner and the EFL fall for it ?
     
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  19. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

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    Or it paints EFL in a really poor light?
     
  20. Shy Talk

    Shy Talk Well-Known Member

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    If the panel followed the remit as I read it that "evidence" (word of mouth only?) would be inadmissible. They were supposed to forward their grounds for appeal, together with supporting documentation, to the EFL in advance of the hearing.
     

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