With a massive labour shortage in the country at the moment

For what it’s worth

research shows that the public perception of fraud is 34 times higher than the reality. It’s an emotive subject. Nobody likes to think of their taxes going to fraudsters. It outrages our sense of fair play and our deep sense of who deserves what and why.

However, outrage can take on a life of its own. It can cloud our perceptions and obscure the very sense of fairness that triggered it in the first place.

Fraud aside, is it fair that people who are genuinely struggling to get by should receive a helping hand? Many of us will have been in this position ourselves, or at least known someone who has. And is it fair they should be subjected to abuse and discrimination as a result? Clearly, it isn’t. The bottom line is that we need to change the way we talk about benefits. We hear far too much about the tiny minority of fraudsters and very little about the millions of ordinary people who want to get by. Instead of shaming or finger pointing, we should be focusing on the reasons people need help, whether that’s low wages, unemployment or the housing shortage.

 

John Smith saved Labour. Took over from perennial loser Kinnock. Reinvigorated Labour. Healed divisions. Reached out to left and right. Created a massive poll lead that Blair eventually frittered away. The greatest prime minister we never had. And a genuinely lovely bloke. Interesting that his daughter strongly said he supported OMOV probably because he has confidence in himself and his beliefs and was happy to be challenged.


Kinnock is an historical irrelevance.

 

anyone unemployed for longer than 6 months is allocated a job coach. They have to demonstrate that they have applied for jobs and that those jobs are appropriate. Any interviews arranged need to be shown to have been attended. Benefits can be stopped and sanctions issued for incidents such as not answering a call from the job coach or not responding to an answer machine message within a set amount of time. They will be expected to have weekly meetings in which they will need to show proof of applications and attendance at any arranged interviews.

 

In a previous life, I interviewed & employed people from a job club(which I think was unemployed for 2 years), every person sent to me, I was contacted afterwards from the job centre to ask for feedback, included in that conversation would be did they turn up & did I believe they wanted to be there.
Does that still happen?

 

like that but on steroids. I started volunteering with CAB just before lockdown as my mate runs one and knows my benefits background but have only just started really and it’s pretty clear the system isn’t designed to help anyone into work just trick them into getting sanctioned.

 

That’s not good, it sounds like it’s more about people hitting targets rather than being constructive, which sort of defeats the objective.

 

feels like a black hole and people who actually want to work but need support and training to get there are just ignored

 

This basically is like being on ******* parole, for not having a ******* job.

 

Fair enough.

I wasn't really being serious by the way.

 

You’re pretty brilliant at forgetting what you’ve previously posted in order to stick to a point.
When people started WFH, you were quite vocal in saying it was only for the middle classes and that ordinary people living in small homes were disadvantaged. Despite me telling you of colleagues and relatives who lived in shared houses or 1 bed flats working fine.

Later you definitely also said it was only people with gardens who were keen on lockdown.

Now you’re saying minimum wage is plenty to live on.

I’ll tell you what - I’ve seen some interesting arguments for and against NMW. But I’ve never seen anyone else who earns NMW suggest that it’s plenty to live on.

It’s most bizarre.

The other post I nearly wrote last night was that if you’re really managing to stretch NMW into a nice lifestyle, you’ve missed your vocation, cos I know plenty of people with lots higher incomes who struggle financially. You’re obviously a mathematical genius.

 

That’s a fairly jaded view of the current system.

I’ve known hundreds of work coaches, and the vast majority are trying to do the best they can to help people into work, obviously some of them are better at doing that than others. There is always a small minority who abuse their powers re sanctions etc but even that isn’t as bad as its heyday during the Cameron govt.

Everyone who’s contributed to this thread should have a watch of last years C4 doc series ‘The Yorkshire Jobcentre’, it might help them understand unemployment better than anything else I can think of.

 

Take home pay per month at nmw: £1355.37
Mortgage: £350
Council tax: £66
Water: £16
Gas/Electric: £100
Mobile phone: £20
TV licence: £15
Sky TV plus broadband etc: £60
Buildings and contents insurance: £12
Car insurance: £25
Fuel bill: £70
Food: £250 (well over the national average food bill per person per month)
Income: £1355.37
Bills: £904
Obviously there is money set aside for car and property maintenance but could you explain how this makes me a mathematical genius? Money in is higher than money out. That isn't genius it's common sense


Also I said that work from home isn't practical for those in the smallest homes, it just isn't. I also said those in relative luxury of larger homes, gardens and air conditioning throughout and also those who live with a family will generally speaking find lockdown easier than someone isolated alone or with little outside space. That's simply common sense again. And there are plenty of people on nmw in this area who live ok on it, I should know because it's about 90% of my colleagues. Some do struggle but then when they're on FIFA every night spending hundreds on 'packs', smoking 20 a day and going out to restaurants with their mates every few days then let's be honest there's no wonder they can't afford the basics. One lad at work on nmw drives a Mercedes, £300 a month he pays in loan repayments for it.

 

We've done it before, and we're not going to agree. But "massive poll lead that Blair eventually frittered away"? General Election victories by 179, 167 and 66. The only Labour leader to win a GE in the last 45 years. But no - let's be further left and stay in the wilderness! Can't agree on Kinnock either. I think he did the heavy lifting by ousting some of the nutters and preparing the way for Smith, Blair and Brown.

Do agree on John Smith though. Although I think his moderation would have prevailed - even with OMOV. And Sarah is an excellent political journalist.

As an aside JV, what do you think Major Dan is up to? Has he been promised a shadow cabinet post, or is he even eyeing the top job? He outranks yer man Clive Lewis!

 

Do you still get six months' contribution-based JSA (non income-assessed) if you leave a job through redundancy? Or have the rules changed?

 

Yes you do.
Although depending on the caseload in your jobcentre, you may end up being asked to prove you’ve been actually seeking work.

 

Not sure about that mate, I was made redundant last December and tried to claim "new style JSA", it's now means tested. Because I get about £9,000 from occupational pensions, and my partner Anne gets her state pension, I got nothing.

 

See my reply to Donny-Red above.

 

Once more you kid-read my tone, I’m genuinely impressed that you manage that well, I know people with multiples of your income who don’t manage that well.

however…

Simply not true.
Again, I’ve family, friends and colleagues that absolutely prove it’s not true.

Just because you assert something; that you just ‘believe’, doesn’t make it true.

But beyond telling you - what would you accept as proof? witness statements? Photo’s?

 

No, I understand that some will manage to work from home in a one bed flat, some people can some people can't. What I'm saying is that it's not practical. Just because they are happy to do it doesn't make it practical. Doesn't mean I don't believe that people do do it



As for the budgeting thing, if you look at the figures I gave there's nothing particularly impressive there is there? It's not like I make huge savings in any particular place

 

It’s really not!

I don’t know who advised you, but the law still says if you’ve paid enough contributions in the relevant period, then you’re entitled to conts based JSA. Likewise ESA if you meet the criteria for being unable to work on health grounds (12 months).


Eligibility
To be eligible for ‘new style’ Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) you’ll need to have both:

• worked as an employee
• paid Class 1 National Insurance contributions, usually in the last 2 to 3 years (National Insurance credits can also count)

You will not be eligible if you were self-employed and only paid Class 2 National Insurance contributions, unless you were working as a share fisherman or a volunteer development worker.

From
https://www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance/eligibility