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Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Jimmy viz, Dec 31, 2023.

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  1. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    “pragmatism” is what has brought the NHS and the country to its knees.
     
    Jimmy viz, Jan 2, 2024
    #101
  2. Merde Tete

    Merde Tete Well-Known Member

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    That's my "very optimistic" scenario, though I'm not sure it's what will actually play out in reality.
     
    Merde Tete, Jan 2, 2024
    #102
  3. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    That's a whole separate debate. In terms of the approach to solving the problems going forward, I'm afraid I'm with Gordon O's pragmatism.
     
    orsenkaht, Jan 2, 2024
    #103
  4. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    Quite so. There are many, many hurdles ahead. I see Starmer as a potential Harold Wilson-type leader. Whether he will prove to have Wilson's political adeptness is a whole other question. Reading Nick Thomas-Symonds biography of Harold, it's remarkable that many of the problems that Wilson faced in 1964 are the same ones faced today.
     
    orsenkaht, Jan 2, 2024
    #104
  5. Tyk

    Tyketical Masterstroke Well-Known Member

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    No that was the "lockdown". But everyone seems to have washed their hands of the responsibility for the crippling waiting lists it brought about.
     
    Tyketical Masterstroke, Jan 2, 2024
    #105
  6. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Yes because what better solution to a problem than repeating the things that created the problem. There’s a made up Epstein quote that covers that.
     
    Jimmy viz, Jan 2, 2024
    #106
  7. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    Epstein? :eek:
     
    orsenkaht, Jan 2, 2024
    #107
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  8. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Yeah hence me not quoting it!
     
    Jimmy viz, Jan 2, 2024
    #108
  9. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree. I never thought there would be a world where LibDems are pretty far to the left of Labour but we are where we are.
     
    Jimmy viz, Jan 2, 2024
    #109
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  10. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    From personal experience the cost for example of the NHS using privatised Mental Health care is almost unbelievable. If the public knew they would be up
    In arms. The money leeching out then cannot be invested. You then can’t recruit because you have no budget. Ad infinitum.
     
    Jimmy viz, Jan 2, 2024
    #110
  11. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Jimmy viz, Jan 2, 2024
    #111
  12. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Jimmy viz, Jan 2, 2024
    #112
  13. Gor

    Gordon Ottershaw Well-Known Member

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    the waiting lists were out of hand well before lockdown
     
    Gordon Ottershaw, Jan 2, 2024
    #113
  14. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Jimmy viz, Jan 2, 2024
    #114
  15. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

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    I don't have access to this article, so can't comment. But the suggestions by @Gordon Ottershaw about using the private sector as part of a plan to improve the NHS is the polar opposite of what the tories have been doing, which has been a deliberate attempt to sabotage the NHS.

    Ultimately, if changes mean that I can get access to a consultant within a reasonable time frame (my boss is waiting 12 months for treatment), or in case of an emergency be able to get a hospital bed within a few hours (my mother recently was sat in a waiting room for 30 hours, and the hospital corridors are full of people on trolleys. Some are facing a 60 hour wait for a bed), and not have to worry about who is footing the bill* for the treatment, then those changes will get my vote. If I have to pay extra in NI or income tax every month, I don't care. If private companies profit from it, I don't care as long as their work leads to improvements in the public service.

    (* Just to be clear, I wouldn't consider an insurance company paying a claim to cover a bill as being free at the point of care)
     
    leythtyke, Jan 3, 2024
    #115
  16. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Cool that you don’t care that the NHS is to be privatised.
     
    Jimmy viz, Jan 3, 2024
    #116
  17. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Jimmy viz, Jan 3, 2024
    #117
  18. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

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    That's a ****ish thing to say and you know it. I specifically said that I want healthcare to be available within a reasonable time (and should add quality to that) and be funded by the state, rather than insurance companies or individual billing, even if that means I pay more into the treasury via tax or NI. That's not privatising the NHS.
     
    leythtyke, Jan 3, 2024
    #118
  19. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    This is the most inaccurate thread title ever
     
    Jay, Jan 3, 2024
    #119
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  20. Durkar Red

    Durkar Red Well-Known Member

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    I agree that Streeting isn’t in favour of throwing money blindly at the NHS just diverting it blindly to the private sector , the crisis in health care is a manufactured one , private healthcare companies are suffocating the NHS , nothing that that Streeting has said is going to alter that very much the opposite . Bye the way why does he take so many personal donations from people with links to private health care
     
    Durkar Red, Jan 3, 2024
    #120
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