Posted without Comment.

“pragmatism” is what has brought the NHS and the country to its knees.

 

That's my "very optimistic" scenario, though I'm not sure it's what will actually play out in reality.

 

That's a whole separate debate. In terms of the approach to solving the problems going forward, I'm afraid I'm with Gordon O's pragmatism.

 

Quite so. There are many, many hurdles ahead. I see Starmer as a potential Harold Wilson-type leader. Whether he will prove to have Wilson's political adeptness is a whole other question. Reading Nick Thomas-Symonds biography of Harold, it's remarkable that many of the problems that Wilson faced in 1964 are the same ones faced today.

 

No that was the "lockdown". But everyone seems to have washed their hands of the responsibility for the crippling waiting lists it brought about.

 

Yes because what better solution to a problem than repeating the things that created the problem. There’s a made up Epstein quote that covers that.

 

Epstein?

 

Yeah hence me not quoting it!

 

Completely agree. I never thought there would be a world where LibDems are pretty far to the left of Labour but we are where we are.

 

From personal experience the cost for example of the NHS using privatised Mental Health care is almost unbelievable. If the public knew they would be up
In arms. The money leeching out then cannot be invested. You then can’t recruit because you have no budget. Ad infinitum.

 

Made me laugh at least.

https://x.com/theidsmiths/status/1742103666117550366?s=46&t=j20zR706pmXrBtdI_7p-NQ

 

The private sector ‘helping’ the NHS.

https://x.com/danielgoyal/status/1741042842167070826?s=46&t=j20zR706pmXrBtdI_7p-NQ

 

the waiting lists were out of hand well before lockdown

 

seems a little more than clearing waiting lists anyway so probably moot.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/labour-private-sector-nhs-wes-streeting-2760505

 

I don't have access to this article, so can't comment. But the suggestions by @Gordon Ottershaw about using the private sector as part of a plan to improve the NHS is the polar opposite of what the tories have been doing, which has been a deliberate attempt to sabotage the NHS.

Ultimately, if changes mean that I can get access to a consultant within a reasonable time frame (my boss is waiting 12 months for treatment), or in case of an emergency be able to get a hospital bed within a few hours (my mother recently was sat in a waiting room for 30 hours, and the hospital corridors are full of people on trolleys. Some are facing a 60 hour wait for a bed), and not have to worry about who is footing the bill* for the treatment, then those changes will get my vote. If I have to pay extra in NI or income tax every month, I don't care. If private companies profit from it, I don't care as long as their work leads to improvements in the public service.

(* Just to be clear, I wouldn't consider an insurance company paying a claim to cover a bill as being free at the point of care)

 

Cool that you don’t care that the NHS is to be privatised.

 

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/

 

That's a ****ish thing to say and you know it. I specifically said that I want healthcare to be available within a reasonable time (and should add quality to that) and be funded by the state, rather than insurance companies or individual billing, even if that means I pay more into the treasury via tax or NI. That's not privatising the NHS.

 

This is the most inaccurate thread title ever

 

I agree that Streeting isn’t in favour of throwing money blindly at the NHS just diverting it blindly to the private sector , the crisis in health care is a manufactured one , private healthcare companies are suffocating the NHS , nothing that that Streeting has said is going to alter that very much the opposite . Bye the way why does he take so many personal donations from people with links to private health care